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  1. #1
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    Various trade purposals

    Beasley for McGee

    Any chance we could get in on a Paul Pierce or Ray Allen deal? Supposedly Ainge is interested in creating cap space to retool next season.

    Randolph, Pekovic, Johnson, Malcolm Lee.

    I'm curious to see what happens at the trade deadline this year. I feels like their could be quite a bit of movement with Dwight, Celtics, Rockets, whoever.

  2. #2
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    Wont hold me breath.

    I can't see the Wizards trading McGhee for Beasley. Blatche is supposedly on the block for anyone that wants him, I am not sure he makes sense.

    I am not sure why we would want Pierce at this point and not sure we have anything to give them except space. I dont want a ton of money tied up in a player who is on the decline for even 2 years. Ray Allen is a guy I dont see the Celtics trading because he is a big expiring contract. Taking back similar value in money in return would hurt their cap space unless they can get a young star player.
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  3. #3
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    It would be painful for the Cs to trade Pierce, but if they could get cap space and maybe a decent young player then they should.

    And since the 3 spot is clear our biggest need, I would try and at least make an offer.

    Beasley make sense because he could play the 3 and give them cap space.

    I am sure they would want players like Miller or Webster also for the cap space.

    Maybe a Beasley, Miller and Johnson for Pierce deal?


    I would also be interested in McGee. I bet they may take Wes for him though and that would be a no-brainer for us. I would want to increase the size of a deal though to include another Center (preferably Darko) because we would have an overload at Center and they have a need there.
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  4. #4
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    I thought about getting involved in a Celtics trade, but I could not figure out a way that we would net pieces that we needed and Boston would want to do the trade.

    Any trade that we do should clear money off of our books for next season or the season after, or net us solid talent that we can grow with. Since Boston is looking to rebuild, they are going to want a number of solid, young players and/or draft picks from whomever they trade with, and they would be giving up Pierce, KG or Allen. None of those pieces really fit what we need, and they would likely want too much back from us to make a deal.

    I could see us being a 3rd piece in a trade by adding some young pieces and taking on a guy in their prime. Let's pretend that Philly decided they were Paul Pierce away from being a contender for the next two seasons. I could see us taking Iggy and giving up Wes, Beasley, Ridnour and Pekovic and/or the 1st rounders we have acquired. I realize that particular scenario is highly unlikely, but that was the best example I could think of off hand of a player that we might poach in a 3-team trade that fits what we are looking for.

    I don't think it is likely that we will be involved in a trade with the Celtics, and unless we can get trade(s) that get us cap space or young talent, I am probably more interested in just seeing if Rubio and Love draw some free agent interest in the off season.

  5. #5
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    First of all, I think that if and when Ainge actually decides to look at deals for any of the Celtic's three veteran all-stars, Pierce is by far the least likely to be dealt, because he's both the guy with the best chance of sustaining an elite or near-elite level of play going forward, and he's the career Celtic, a guy who the owners really want to be "their" franchise legend, and retire as a Celtic (his number will be retired no matter what, but he has a chance to finish his career in the top-3 in games and minutes played, and pass Larry Bird for second on the franchise scoring list, and those are BIG accomplishments for a franchise that's won 17 titles in a single city).

    Second, if they did decide to move Pierce, and Philly was offering someone like Iguodala, I can't imagine the Celtics preferring lower-rung young guys/cap space to the better young player. So I'd expect them to keep Iggy in Boston, rather than flipping him to the Wolves for spare parts.

    Given those circumstances, I think Ray Allen might actually be the most obtainable of the three Celtic veterans (KG's deal is just SO big that it's almost impossible to work out a deal that keeps the Celtics under the 15-man roster limit). He'd be a good fit on the Wolves' roster, his $10m salary would be easier to match in trade, and he might be OK with playing out the season here.

    I assume that the requirements for a Ray Allen trade would be:

    1) All or mostly expiring contracts, so that the Celtics can reserve the cap space they're due to have next summer, to allow them to rebuild around Rondo+Pierce..

    2) A 1st-round pick for the Celtics' trouble (otherwise, Ray is still good enough that they're better off holding onto him).

    3) At least one and probably two potentially useful young players, who the team could evaluate for a role going forward.

    Perhaps something like Beasley, Ellington, and the better of the UTA/MEM 1sts for Ray (and anther minimum contract to balance the rosters)

    Or maybe Anthony Randolph in place of/in addition to Ellington.

    Wes might be an option, too, but I'd think the Celtics would see him as negative value, since he's no better than Ellington at this point, but is owed more than twice as much next year, when they're trying to create/reserve cap room.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ Styles View Post
    I don't think it is likely that we will be involved in a trade with the Celtics, and unless we can get trade(s) that get us cap space or young talent, I am probably more interested in just seeing if Rubio and Love draw some free agent interest in the off season.
    Couldn't agree more. It makes a lot more sense to let the young core of this team grow together, learn each others' strengths & weaknesses, and develop confidence in their own abilities. Why bring in an established "star" to demand the ball while learning a new system and requiring everyone to learn how to play with him---when he won't be part of the long term future?

  7. #7
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    The relative unlikeliness of Piece being the one dealt is pretty clear. Pierce, too, seems to want to stay. Despite his injury history, he's also younger than Allen or Garnett.

    However, Danny Ainge is aggressive as can be. As of the resolution of the lockout, when the Celtics had too few players on their roster to hold an actual practice, it was already apparent that they were going to need to transform the team. I don't think Ainge is in the game for Iguodalas, I think he wants Dwight Howards. He wants to be the game changer that Pat Riley was with the Heat two summers ago.

    Don't put anything past him this year.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf on the Prowl View Post
    I can't see the Wizards trading McGhee for Beasley. Blatche is supposedly on the block for anyone that wants him, I am not sure he makes sense.

    I am not sure why we would want Pierce at this point and not sure we have anything to give them except space. I dont want a ton of money tied up in a player who is on the decline for even 2 years. Ray Allen is a guy I dont see the Celtics trading because he is a big expiring contract. Taking back similar value in money in return would hurt their cap space unless they can get a young star player.
    I don't really see it that way. I think a veteran like a Pierce, or more likely Allen, might be an ideal pickup for us. If it's a high priced guy that will be gone in two years, that will free up money right when we'll need it to resign Rubio and Williams (assuming he blossoms).

    A guy like Allen isn't the type of dominant personality that will demand the ball at the expense of others. He's a true professional and a guy that isn't afraid to take the big shot. If Wes has a prayer of making it in the league, Ray Allen is probably the ideal mentor. Same with Ellington. And he can help us win games now too.

    We have a ton of young talent, but you can't have a team made up entirely of young guys. Young guys tend to struggle without leadership. Plus, if they are all about the same age they are all going to be due contracts at the same time and that can be a problem. I think a team is much better off with a mixture of young guys and a few strong veterans.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA_33 View Post
    First of all, I think that if and when Ainge actually decides to look at deals for any of the Celtic's three veteran all-stars, Pierce is by far the least likely to be dealt, because he's both the guy with the best chance of sustaining an elite or near-elite level of play going forward, and he's the career Celtic, a guy who the owners really want to be "their" franchise legend, and retire as a Celtic (his number will be retired no matter what, but he has a chance to finish his career in the top-3 in games and minutes played, and pass Larry Bird for second on the franchise scoring list, and those are BIG accomplishments for a franchise that's won 17 titles in a single city).

    Second, if they did decide to move Pierce, and Philly was offering someone like Iguodala, I can't imagine the Celtics preferring lower-rung young guys/cap space to the better young player. So I'd expect them to keep Iggy in Boston, rather than flipping him to the Wolves for spare parts.

    Given those circumstances, I think Ray Allen might actually be the most obtainable of the three Celtic veterans (KG's deal is just SO big that it's almost impossible to work out a deal that keeps the Celtics under the 15-man roster limit). He'd be a good fit on the Wolves' roster, his $10m salary would be easier to match in trade, and he might be OK with playing out the season here.

    I assume that the requirements for a Ray Allen trade would be:

    1) All or mostly expiring contracts, so that the Celtics can reserve the cap space they're due to have next summer, to allow them to rebuild around Rondo+Pierce..

    2) A 1st-round pick for the Celtics' trouble (otherwise, Ray is still good enough that they're better off holding onto him).

    3) At least one and probably two potentially useful young players, who the team could evaluate for a role going forward.

    Perhaps something like Beasley, Ellington, and the better of the UTA/MEM 1sts for Ray (and anther minimum contract to balance the rosters)

    Or maybe Anthony Randolph in place of/in addition to Ellington.

    Wes might be an option, too, but I'd think the Celtics would see him as negative value, since he's no better than Ellington at this point, but is owed more than twice as much next year, when they're trying to create/reserve cap room.
    No reason to give that much for Allen for a half year rental although it could help us get into playoff contention.

    You are probably correct on Pierce being untouchable for sentimental reasons, but the Cs could really start a rebuild with moving him and probably cannot with him on the roster. I suppose they could try and get another star with cap space for one more run with Rondo and Pierce, but I do not see that going well. (Edit: I guess adding Howard as Ian suggested would be the game changer, although I think Howard would just be using Boston as a threat to get traded to a better team if it came to that.)

    I really do not see the Cs getting anything like Iggy for a 34 year old wing with major mileage and more than $30 MM on his contract when he is 35+.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by EA! View Post
    No reason to give that much for Allen for a half year rental although it could help us get into playoff contention.

    You are probably correct on Pierce being untouchable for sentimental reasons, but the Cs could really start a rebuild with moving him and probably cannot with him on the roster. I suppose they could try and get another star with cap space for one more run with Rondo and Pierce, but I do not see that going well. (Edit: I guess adding Howard as Ian suggested would be the game changer, although I think Howard would just be using Boston as a threat to get traded to a better team if it came to that.)

    I really do not see the Cs getting anything like Iggy for a 34 year old wing with major mileage and more than $30 MM on his contract when he is 35+.
    In reverse order: I agree that Philly almost certainly isn't giving up Iggy for an older wing who's making similar money. All I was saying is that if they DID offer him for Pierce, I can't imagine the Celtics giving up a chance to pair Iggy with Rondo to take back spare parts from the Wolves.

    As for rebuilding by moving Pierce, I think he's much more valuable as a trade asset than as $15m in additional cap room. They'll already have $25m in cap space with he and Rondo on the roster, and since they very top FAs aren't likely to consider the Celtics no matter what (and by "very top guys" I mean Howard and Deron, basically), they'll need something to trade to get a comparable elite player to build with, AND they'll need someone very good already on the roster to help convince said new Superstar to accept a deal/stay.

    I just don't think an extra $15m in cap room is that much more valuable than having both Pierce and Rondo on the roster, when the sentimental reasons for keeping him are so strong (as are the basketball reasons, quite frankly; Pierce is still really good, as he's beginning to show now that he's rounding into shape, after missing all of camp with his heel injury).

    Finally, as for the package I suggested for Ray, it's going to take something in that neighborhood to convince the Celtics to part with him; no matter what, Ainge isn't giving those guys away, since both Ray and KG are expiring anyway, and there's still value in having the ability to either re-sign them at a reduced salary, or send them elsewhere in a S&T as part of a deal to land a star in the off-season.

    What would you suggest as a more appropriate return?

    I really think a mid-round 1st and expiring contracts is the bare minimum, and frankly, Beasley is mostly neutral value at this point, the expiring guy who the Wolves have the least need for, but who another team might be moderately interested in taking look at, and potentially holding onto as a RFA flyer.

    Maybe the deal is Beasley, a pick, and either Miller or Webster rather than Ellington or even Randolph, but I think those guys are both potentially more valuable than Wayne if the Wolves are trying to make a late playoff push (which they would be, in a scenario where they're adding Ray Allen).

    But in the end, I think that if you asked Celtics fans about my initial suggestion, most would say, "Nah, it's not worth moving Ray for that, even if we get to the point that this season is a complete washout". He's just not going to come for free, and the assets that the Wolves would actually want to move have very little value (or even negative value, in several cases).

  11. #11
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    Not the point I was making.

    I am not saying those guys wouldnt help the Wolves team all three Celtics veterans make sense on this team for a number of reasons. Allen is still a good shooter who would fill a major need for us and is probably still a solid starter in the league. Pierce is still effective and with our lack of production at the position makes a ton of sense. KG would be a great defensive minded big whose game would fit with some of our holes depending on what position he plays.

    That being said their current salaries for what they would give our current team doesnt make sense. If we are looking to make a playoff run this year I could see trying to add them but at what price? We need to try and add players that we can build around for the next few years. Our best game is yet to come putting any long term money into players that are not part of the future makes little sense. Why trade for Ray Allen now when maybe you could offer him $5 million in the offseason for a short term deal if he wants to continue to play.
    It doesn’t matter if you are a king or street sweeper pretty soon you will dance with the reaper!

    Its better to be silent and everyone think your an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

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  12. #12
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    I admit that Iggy was a poor example. I am not really sure what a good example would be, that is why I went with Iggy. I was just saying that we would most likley be the piece adding the youth and picks while taking a player too old to be starting a rebuilding process but young enough to fit with our current core.

    I am also not sure why everyone is obsessed with having money for when Rubio and Williams need to sign deals. Bird rights allow us to sign them even if it puts us over the cap. What we want is money before they have to sign so we can get other talent while we still have cap space. Having Pierce on the roster prevents us from getting a solid 2, 3 and 5, and only gives us back his cap hit when we need to spend it on our core players. Basically it means we could never afford to fill out those 3 positions.

    I also think that Pierce is at touchable as anyone else. I don't have the link, but the article I read about the Celtics potentially rebuilding has a quote from Ainge about when he was playing and there were several offers on players on the team and he was questioning why they weren't getting traded. He is not a sentimental guy. Now, I do not think Pierce will get traded, but it is because I don't think anyone will give what Ainge feels Pierce is worth. Only way that Pierce moves is if they get a superstar back, and I don't see Orlando trading Howard for Pierce, or even Rondo and Pierce (and I don't see Boston giving up Rondo to rent Howard for half a season, and I don't see Howard staying with a Rondo-less Boston).

    The Celtics needed to blow it up a couple of years ago. Either that or they needed to make a trade to put them over the top a couple of years ago. Now they have two "assets" that people will not trade for. I can't see anyone trading for KG right now with that contract, at least not anything equal in value. Same with Allen. Sure, his deal is easier to absorb, but who is going to give them value back? I would give Boston a bunch of players that we don't want, just to get them off the books. But, parting with actual solid talent for Allen? Only a contending team would be interested in that, and then they would probably find better targets than Allen.


 

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