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  1. #1

    What next? Rumors and trades

    I just saw this...



    NBA trade Rumors: Taj Gibson to Minnesota Timberwolves as Chicago Bulls to sign Ryan Anderson
    YIBADA English - ‎7 hours ago‎

    Ironically, the Minnesota Timberwolves appear to be the best candidate if they want young players in return, as ESPN Insider feature where Kevin Pelton suggested the move.

    http://en.yibada.com/articles/135484...bulls-sign.htm


  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    I just saw this...



    NBA trade Rumors: Taj Gibson to Minnesota Timberwolves as Chicago Bulls to sign Ryan Anderson
    YIBADA English - ‎7 hours ago‎

    Ironically, the Minnesota Timberwolves appear to be the best candidate if they want young players in return, as ESPN Insider feature where Kevin Pelton suggested the move.

    http://en.yibada.com/articles/135484...bulls-sign.htm
    Taj would be a great fit. If the cost was Muhammad I would do it. Not interested in sending anyone else out besides that though. He's a solid player but being on his last year is actually a pretty big negative at this point.

    The other Bull I want to bring in is E-Twaun Moore. He's a good fit as a backup SG who can shoot and play D in a limited role. He will likely be very cheap. I'm less optimistic on a Deng signing. If rumors are true that Washington is offering Noah a max, I can see Deng easily getting 18 mill or more. I would prefer other options to give us a full bench.

    Potential team -
    C - KAT
    PF - Taj
    SF - Wig
    SG - Lavine
    PG - Rubio
    6th - Gorgui
    7th - Dunn
    8th - FA Wing/SF (Dudley, Deng, Solomon Hill, Matt Barnes, someone who can play as a small ball 4)
    9th - Moore
    10 - Bjelicia/FA Big man (Plumlee, Zeller)


  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cory View Post
    Taj would be a great fit. If the cost was Muhammad I would do it. Not interested in sending anyone else out besides that though. He's a solid player but being on his last year is actually a pretty big negative at this point.

    The other Bull I want to bring in is E-Twaun Moore. He's a good fit as a backup SG who can shoot and play D in a limited role. He will likely be very cheap. I'm less optimistic on a Deng signing. If rumors are true that Washington is offering Noah a max, I can see Deng easily getting 18 mill or more. I would prefer other options to give us a full bench.
    Doogie was saying C. Lee may be getting >= 14M. I don't think paying a premium for a wing defender is wise. I like your idea better of getting an under the radar guy and hoping Thibs can find someone to fit his system. I think the Wolves are going to have to resign themselves to pay top dollar for Deng or Noah, although the rumors out there are probably planted by their agents. Garnett's contract looks more and more like an albatross but maybe he will give them some quality minutes at PF if he stays.


  4. #4
    Gibson for Bazz and/or Tyus is a no brainer.


  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by stlouiswolf View Post
    Garnett's contract looks more and more like an albatross but maybe he will give them some quality minutes at PF if he stays.
    I think its beginning to sound more and more like KG won't be back. Even if he decides to play one more year, it very well might not be here.


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlouiswolf View Post
    Doogie was saying C. Lee may be getting >= 14M. I don't think paying a premium for a wing defender is wise. I like your idea better of getting an under the radar guy and hoping Thibs can find someone to fit his system. I think the Wolves are going to have to resign themselves to pay top dollar for Deng or Noah, although the rumors out there are probably planted by their agents. Garnett's contract looks more and more like an albatross but maybe he will give them some quality minutes at PF if he stays.
    Deng at 18 million is much better than Lee at 14 million, IMO.

    If good but not great players are getting this much, doesn't it make great players at the max even more desirable? Sure, Horford's looking for the max, but wouldn't the value of Horford at the max be significantly better than Lee at 14 or even Deng at 18? Maybe the issue becomes length of contract, versus yearly salary, but it's still a question worth asking.

    I know the Horford fit isn't perfect (probably more of a C than a PF), but to me, of all the free agents, he's the most desirable for next year (long term money and injuries and age are concerns). To me, if Vegas odds suggest we're a mid-seed playoff team, could it follow that adding Horford puts us in contention for a top seed? It's hard to see that being the case with GS, SA, and OKC at the top, but with Horford, I wouldn't be surprised if we contended for the 4th seed. LAC are vulnerable given age and chemistry, and POR reached their peak seeding last year unless they make a huge FA acquisition or one of their young bigs develops into an All Star next year.


  7. #7
    Deng at 18 is going to be reasonable. I think he ends up at 20.

    I don't think it would be the worst strategy to be last to market this year. There's is going to be tremendous dollars thrown around to free agents this summer and next and when money eventually dries up, there will be some value free agents out there. I do want some veterans brought in but being patient and conserving space while other teams burn there's up could prove to be beneficial. If we can find 3-4 value guys then I think we are better off then putting 20 million into one big signing.


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cory View Post
    Deng at 18 is going to be reasonable. I think he ends up at 20.

    I don't think it would be the worst strategy to be last to market this year. There's is going to be tremendous dollars thrown around to free agents this summer and next and when money eventually dries up, there will be some value free agents out there. I do want some veterans brought in but being patient and conserving space while other teams burn there's up could prove to be beneficial. If we can find 3-4 value guys then I think we are better off then putting 20 million into one big signing.
    Problem is everyone has money and has to spend to cap minimum. If the Wolves are bound and determined to get an impact player this year, they have to pony up. They won't have much left for a second and third signing, but that's where Thibs and Layden will have to be wise in their selections. FWIW, not sure if the numbers being thrown around are accurate. Even in the new salary environment I find it hard to see Deng getting 20M, but who knows.


  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by stlouiswolf View Post
    Problem is everyone has money and has to spend to cap minimum. If the Wolves are bound and determined to get an impact player this year, they have to pony up. They won't have much left for a second and third signing, but that's where Thibs and Layden will have to be wise in their selections. FWIW, not sure if the numbers being thrown around are accurate. Even in the new salary environment I find it hard to see Deng getting 20M, but who knows.
    One issue I see, when you look at the top 20 free agents, a pool we may get into at the very end if we are bidding on Deng who is near that area, only 15 or less appear like they will actually be free agents. Lebron, KD, Drummond, Derozan, and Beal are all locks to return it appears. That elevates Deng into a top 15 free agent and more likely to receive stupid money because teams are willing to burn it.

    Player values are going to go up across the board, but at some point you will be able to find value. If you ask me would I rather have Dudley at 10-12 million, plus a backup C (Plumlee/Zeller) at 6 million and Moore at 5 million a year or Deng at 18 - 20 I go for quantity. That might not be the correct option but I think we need a completely new bench this season is possible.


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Cory View Post
    Taj would be a great fit. If the cost was Muhammad I would do it. Not interested in sending anyone else out besides that though. He's a solid player but being on his last year is actually a pretty big negative at this point.

    The other Bull I want to bring in is E-Twaun Moore. He's a good fit as a backup SG who can shoot and play D in a limited role. He will likely be very cheap. I'm less optimistic on a Deng signing. If rumors are true that Washington is offering Noah a max, I can see Deng easily getting 18 mill or more. I would prefer other options to give us a full bench.

    Potential team -
    C - KAT
    PF - Taj
    SF - Wig
    SG - Lavine
    PG - Rubio
    6th - Gorgui
    7th - Dunn
    8th - FA Wing/SF (Dudley, Deng, Solomon Hill, Matt Barnes, someone who can play as a small ball 4)
    9th - Moore
    10 - Bjelicia/FA Big man (Plumlee, Zeller)
    +100 Cory.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob McCann View Post
    Deng at 18 million is much better than Lee at 14 million, IMO.

    If good but not great players are getting this much, doesn't it make great players at the max even more desirable? Sure, Horford's looking for the max, but wouldn't the value of Horford at the max be significantly better than Lee at 14 or even Deng at 18? Maybe the issue becomes length of contract, versus yearly salary, but it's still a question worth asking.

    I know the Horford fit isn't perfect (probably more of a C than a PF), but to me, of all the free agents, he's the most desirable for next year (long term money and injuries and age are concerns). To me, if Vegas odds suggest we're a mid-seed playoff team, could it follow that adding Horford puts us in contention for a top seed? It's hard to see that being the case with GS, SA, and OKC at the top, but with Horford, I wouldn't be surprised if we contended for the 4th seed. LAC are vulnerable given age and chemistry, and POR reached their peak seeding last year unless they make a huge FA acquisition or one of their young bigs develops into an All Star next year.
    I love Horford but I fully expect him to resign with Atlanta.


  12. #12
    The more the cap expands so should the gap between the players. If the new max is $22 million per year the second tier should be $16-$18 then next tier is $10-$12. The teams that seperate the tiers and how they pay those players to fit the cap. It's going to be very interesting.
    It doesn’t matter if you are a king or street sweeper pretty soon you will dance with the reaper!

    Its better to be silent and everyone think your an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    “Statistics are no substitute for judgment”
    Henry Clay


  13. #13
    Join Date
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    So, couple threads going on that are similar. I'm just going to throw couple thoughts I had, on all of it in this one being a newer thread.

    Souhan Piece:

    Souhan's from the school of reporting in the vein of talk radio/opinion where you take a hard stance on whatever divisive topic is happening, and hope for clicks, comments, if you're a radio station you're calling in, etc. It's not really based on anything beyond generating a reaction. In terms of his opinion on the NBA, or Wolves, there are several on this board that are far more informed, and engaged with the team. I get it's his opinion, I just haven't read anything that makes me believe he knows anything about the NBA. Nor do I think he cares.

    Woj:

    I know some hold him in high regard, but I don't get it. His report on the Kevin Love/Kahn thing is among the worst pieces of reporting I have ever read, he's constantly creating narratives CLEARLY rooted in his own bias regarding teams/players/conversations. His "breaking of deals" is basically when NBA transactions are approved, and done, he's reporting a deal maybe an hour before the NBA announces a trade? A lot of gossip/hearsay. He has a lot of NBA connections, but I don't find him to offer much substance wise. If you're looking for a Wolves related example, beyond the Love/Kahn thing he started, this was his report when Rubio opted to stay in Barcelona back in 2009.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-rubiobarcelona

    After weeks of courting Spanish league officials for a favorable contract buyout, the Minnesota Timberwolves’ brash general manager, David Kahn, failed to deliver point guard Ricky Rubio (notes), sources told Yahoo! Sports on Monday night.

    Rubio – the fifth pick in the 2009 NBA draft – has agreed to a six-year contract with Regal FC Barcelona that doesn’t allow for an escape to the NBA until 2011. Kahn made several trips to Spain to try to get Rubio’s previous team, DKV Joventut, to lower his $8 million buyout price, but couldn’t get it done.

    The Timberwolves will retain Rubio’s rights, and will now hand the team’s point guard duties to rookie Jonny Flynn(notes). Kahn drafted Flynn one pick behind Rubio.

    Rubio, 18, apparently won’t play for the T’wolves until the 2011-12 season, and that’s devastating for the franchise’s new regime, which hoped to tout Rubio as one of its fresh-faced stars. Minnesota was able to legally pay only $500,000 toward the buyout, and the relative constraints of the Twin Cities’ market made the accumulation of endorsement deals difficult to close the gap on the buyout figure. Rubio would’ve made nearly $3.3 million in the NBA this season as the fifth pick in the draft.

    Rubio is one of the most celebrated young prospects to ever come out of Europe, a cult figure who has played pro ball since his 15th birthday. Kahn, the NBA Developmental League owner who was the surprise choice of Minnesota’s ownership to replace former GM Kevin McHale, has banked a lot of his early credibility on how he’s handled Rubio’s buyout negotiations.

    Rubio and his family were never enamored with Minnesota, and along with agent Dan Fegan, longed for a big-city franchise to market Rubio’s wares. Now, there’s a chance that Minnesota eventually will have to trade Rubio’s rights – perhaps to the New York Knicks, a preferred destination – when it’s time for the point guard to leave Europe in 2011.

    For now, Rubio will play for Spain in the upcoming European Championships in Poland. After that, he’ll be with Barcelona for a minimum of two years. His future in the NBA – with Minnesota, or elsewhere – remains in the future.

    -----

    Woj clearly had a beef with Kahn, and has basically been reporting Rubio leaving from day one. Not to mention most stories he's written about Cleveland the past two years.

    Gibson:

    Alright! Let's see how many former Chicago Bulls players we can link to Thibs! Noah, Butler, Deng, Gibson. I really hope we're not looking at his former Bulls team as much as "experts" are speculating.

    Waiting for the Gasol/Mirotic rumor to begin.

    Rubio/Dunn Trade:

    All that said, I do not know what Thibs thinks of Rubio, and believe it's entirely possibly he would deal him. Heck, Flip was looking at a Rubio/Bledsoe swap.

    Whether it's Dunn/Rubio, or Dunn/LaVine, I would have been ****ed. I would 100 times over take Rubio, Dunn, LaVine, and Wiggins over any combination of that plus Butler. We finally have a good stretch in the draft, why not continue to develop and let them grow together? Hey, here's a novel idea, why not go into the season with a deep, strong backcourt with Rubio/Dunn/and LaVine, where we don't completely drop off the table when Rubio sits? Maybe Dunn or Rubio gets injured, now we're not scrambling for a point guard halfway through the season. If Dunn completely blows everyone out of the water, then look at starting him, or dealing Ricky, but Rubio is a fantastic point guard. I understand there's a group of fans suddenly paying attention to the Wolves who believe all we need is Kyle Lowry, but Rubio is a great defender, and an elite passer.

    Casual NBA fans look at Golden State, and see Curry jacking up 15 three's a game, and say, that's what the Wolves should be doing. Golden State is a great team because their defense (Thompson, Iggy, Barnes, and Green) is REALLY good. It's true Rubio's not the shooter Curry is, but he's a better defender/passer/gets to the free throw line better/and is actually initiating the offense, which Curry does maybe part-time. You know what Cleveland's not doing in that series against a point guard like Rubio, going at him every single time regardless of who he's guarding. I'm not saying Rubio is better than Curry, or Curry's not a great player, but there are real limits to his game. There's a sizeable chunk of basketball fans who continue to have no concept why that matters, and I imagine they spend a lot of time commenting on Souhan's columns.

    I have no idea what Thibs will do, but this team would have been good next season with or without him. I'm not as sure we can say the same about Rubio.


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Wolfy View Post
    Rubio/Dunn Trade:

    All that said, I do not know what Thibs thinks of Rubio, and believe it's entirely possibly he would deal him. Heck, Flip was looking at a Rubio/Bledsoe swap.

    Whether it's Dunn/Rubio, or Dunn/LaVine, I would have been ****ed. I would 100 times over take Rubio, Dunn, LaVine, and Wiggins over any combination of that plus Butler. We finally have a good stretch in the draft, why not continue to develop and let them grow together? Hey, here's a novel idea, why not go into the season with a deep, strong backcourt with Rubio/Dunn/and LaVine, where we don't completely drop off the table when Rubio sits? Maybe Dunn or Rubio gets injured, now we're not scrambling for a point guard halfway through the season. If Dunn completely blows everyone out of the water, then look at starting him, or dealing Ricky, but Rubio is a fantastic point guard. I understand there's a group of fans suddenly paying attention to the Wolves who believe all we need is Kyle Lowry, but Rubio is a great defender, and an elite passer.

    Casual NBA fans look at Golden State, and see Curry jacking up 15 three's a game, and say, that's what the Wolves should be doing. Golden State is a great team because their defense (Thompson, Iggy, Barnes, and Green) is REALLY good. It's true Rubio's not the shooter Curry is, but he's a better defender/passer/gets to the free throw line better/and is actually initiating the offense, which Curry does maybe part-time. You know what Cleveland's not doing in that series against a point guard like Rubio, going at him every single time regardless of who he's guarding. I'm not saying Rubio is better than Curry, or Curry's not a great player, but there are real limits to his game. There's a sizeable chunk of basketball fans who continue to have no concept why that matters, and I imagine they spend a lot of time commenting on Souhan's columns.

    I have no idea what Thibs will do, but this team would have been good next season with or without him. I'm not as sure we can say the same about Rubio.
    Jon K on his podcast with Souhan had some well put thoughts on Rubio. He acknowledged that Thibs/Layden haven't been Rubio guys from day 1 with Rubio available in trade since they took over. He also mentioned part of what you touched on, that Flip felt the same way before he started coaching Rubio. Flip was ok to deal Ricky, but when it didn't happen and he saw how Rubio competed, interacted with teammates, etc. he told Jon that Rubio had grown on him. Jon is hopeful that Ricky will get a chance to do the same for Thibs. While drafting Dunn doesn't help the chances of Rubio being on the roster in 2-3 years, Ricky could easily be the starter still this year as starting a rookie isn't something playoff hopefuls do.

    Both Jon and Souhan thought it made sense for Ricky to stay this year. Jon said it makes sense to keep him unless we get a trade option that's a clear win. Dunn gets a chance to acclimate, Ricky gets a chance to maintain/improve on last year's post all star break numbers and the Wolves would get more info to see what they have in both. Jon still believes that Ricky has a chance to improve saying that he's healthy going into an offseason and was showing glimpses last year. This is leading to the details Levine mentioned the other day showing that Ricky could be ready to turn a corner.

    All in all, I agreed with most of what was said. I love Ricky, but I know he's not without fault. I just want him to have one more chance to prove he belongs. I want to see him healthy, playing with talent around him and a good coach. We are close to seeing that depending on free agency IMO. If Ricky can't do it next year, then it may be time to part ways.


  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by dschroeder01 View Post
    Jon K on his podcast with Souhan had some well put thoughts on Rubio. He acknowledged that Thibs/Layden haven't been Rubio guys from day 1 with Rubio available in trade since they took over. He also mentioned part of what you touched on, that Flip felt the same way before he started coaching Rubio. Flip was ok to deal Ricky, but when it didn't happen and he saw how Rubio competed, interacted with teammates, etc. he told Jon that Rubio had grown on him. Jon is hopeful that Ricky will get a chance to do the same for Thibs. While drafting Dunn doesn't help the chances of Rubio being on the roster in 2-3 years, Ricky could easily be the starter still this year as starting a rookie isn't something playoff hopefuls do.

    Both Jon and Souhan thought it made sense for Ricky to stay this year. Jon said it makes sense to keep him unless we get a trade option that's a clear win. Dunn gets a chance to acclimate, Ricky gets a chance to maintain/improve on last year's post all star break numbers and the Wolves would get more info to see what they have in both. Jon still believes that Ricky has a chance to improve saying that he's healthy going into an offseason and was showing glimpses last year. This is leading to the details Levine mentioned the other day showing that Ricky could be ready to turn a corner.

    All in all, I agreed with most of what was said. I love Ricky, but I know he's not without fault. I just want him to have one more chance to prove he belongs. I want to see him healthy, playing with talent around him and a good coach. We are close to seeing that depending on free agency IMO. If Ricky can't do it next year, then it may be time to part ways.
    Good post. I'm all for Ricky staying at least this year. He can start and ease the transition for Dunn. If Dunn comes out and wins the job from the git-go then Ricky would be perfect coming off the bench. I wouldn't move Ricky unless the deal was one that really helps us.


  16. #16
    Wolves decline option on Damjan Rudez

    Adrian Wojnarowski: Sources: Minnesota declining option on forward Damjan Rudez, who shot 41 percent on 3’s for Pacers in 2014-’15. Another shooter on market.
    – via Twitter WojVerticalNBA

    I kind of liked him. Sorry to see him more than likely go.


  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    Wolves decline option on Damjan Rudez

    Adrian Wojnarowski: Sources: Minnesota declining option on forward Damjan Rudez, who shot 41 percent on 3’s for Pacers in 2014-’15. Another shooter on market.
    – via Twitter WojVerticalNBA

    I kind of liked him. Sorry to see him more than likely go.
    Clears a roster space that can be used on a better player.


  18. #18
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    Wolves decline option on Damjan Rudez

    Adrian Wojnarowski: Sources: Minnesota declining option on forward Damjan Rudez, who shot 41 percent on 3’s for Pacers in 2014-’15. Another shooter on market.
    – via Twitter WojVerticalNBA

    I kind of liked him. Sorry to see him more than likely go.
    There was nothing to like. He is 15th player who doesn't know how to play defense. And he was old enough not to risk improving his game.
    “We want to make plays to win basketball games, not to answer any questions or respond to what people have to say about us,” James


  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by vlad View Post
    There was nothing to like. He is 15th player who doesn't know how to play defense. And he was old enough not to risk improving his game.
    He wasn't that bad!?


  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    He wasn't that bad!?
    He can shoot. But doesn't give you anything else. And he's 30.



 

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