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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by The Country Club View Post
    Wiggins definitely would be the first of the big 3 to get moved. I am thinking about this a bit today and given how awfully he's been in defensive metrics (and watching the Toronto game got me thinking on it), I would not be upset if he were dealt....but I would only deal him for a young player instead of trying to get into win now mode.
    Got a list of those young players you'd be willing to trad Wigs for? Was just thinking about it for fun too, but even then my list is fairly short.


  2. #22
    As you all know I questioned how good Wiggins would be in the Love trade. I loved KL's rebounding, shooting and the way he improved every year. Wiggins with his current faults, when he wants to be, is better than I thought he might be on draft day. Back then everybody said he'd be a great lock down defender. We now know that's not the case. Yet, with good coaching and maturity there isn't any reason why he can't be at least pretty good.

    I've been in Zach's corner since draft day. I love the kid. I think he can be an all-star. There isn't any reason that I can see why he can't be a good defender as well. He has most everything else except bbiq and that's improving substantially.

    KAT is KAT. He's going through a bad time now and playing his worst ball away from the basket. The Wolves see him like Anthony Davis. I did too initially but many of you here convinced me that C might be his best position. Either way he can play both.

    The bottom line is it would be a mistake to move any of them. I like Zach a little more than Wiggins but I'd keep both. I'd move anybody else though. These guys seem to be giving in to the pressure of losing and the coaching staff with Thibs harping can't be helping matters. These guys aren't responding to Thibs real well right now. Same thing happened with Sam last year until the team nearly mutinied. Changes were made and the team played well down the stretch. At least Thibs said last night that he was open to look at all options including the coaching to turn it around. Sounds good to me.

    The Towns-Dieng pairing isn't working against good rebounding teams. That's got to change. Guys missing assignments and not playing hard have to sit and that means anybody Towns, Wiggins etc. You can sit them for a few minutes to get the message across. Hopefully Thibs can get some player input and make some adjustments in the way he's coaching them too.

    Patience has never been my strong suit but others here say we're young so I'm not going to panic. The coaches should know the mix well enough by now to make some moves to shore up the team.

    One other thing. I don't know if it was Jim Pete or who but someone said the Wolves players were given game tape to watch on their own. Watch on their own?? These guys need coaches to scrutinize with them every minute they are on the court where they should be and what they should be thinking. Better yet, ask the players then teach.


  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dschroeder01 View Post
    It's a lot closer than many would have thought including me. I think you're right to touch on the rate of improvement. Zach appears to be approving by a faster rate. If that continues, how soon until he surpasses Wiggins? In addition to the other reasons you mentioned, I also agree with the sentiment out there that Zach has an edge to him that Wiggins doesn't seem to show?

    Additionally, I think you get a better return for Wiggins.

    Could names like John Wall or Paul George become available if their teams continue to disappoint?
    If we could swing Rubio or Dunn and Wiggins or Lavigne for Wall I would do it in a second
    Ribs n Whisky make my mind feel tight.


  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    As you all know I questioned how good Wiggins would be in the Love trade. I loved KL's rebounding, shooting and the way he improved every year. Wiggins with his current faults, when he wants to be, is better than I thought he might be on draft day. Back then everybody said he'd be a great lock down defender. We now know that's not the case. Yet, with good coaching and maturity there isn't any reason why he can't be at least pretty good.

    I've been in Zach's corner since draft day. I love the kid. I think he can be an all-star. There isn't any reason that I can see why he can't be a good defender as well. He has most everything else except bbiq and that's improving substantially.

    KAT is KAT. He's going through a bad time now and playing his worst ball away from the basket. The Wolves see him like Anthony Davis. I did too initially but many of you here convinced me that C might be his best position. Either way he can play both.

    The bottom line is it would be a mistake to move any of them. I like Zach a little more than Wiggins but I'd keep both. I'd move anybody else though. These guys seem to be giving in to the pressure of losing and the coaching staff with Thibs harping can't be helping matters. These guys aren't responding to Thibs real well right now. Same thing happened with Sam last year until the team nearly mutinied. Changes were made and the team played well down the stretch. At least Thibs said last night that he was open to look at all options including the coaching to turn it around. Sounds good to me.

    The Towns-Dieng pairing isn't working against good rebounding teams. That's got to change. Guys missing assignments and not playing hard have to sit and that means anybody Towns, Wiggins etc. You can sit them for a few minutes to get the message across. Hopefully Thibs can get some player input and make some adjustments in the way he's coaching them too.

    Patience has never been my strong suit but others here say we're young so I'm not going to panic. The coaches should know the mix well enough by now to make some moves to shore up the team.

    One other thing. I don't know if it was Jim Pete or who but someone said the Wolves players were given game tape to watch on their own. Watch on their own?? These guys need coaches to scrutinize with them every minute they are on the court where they should be and what they should be thinking. Better yet, ask the players then teach.
    You'd trade Towns? 0_0


  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by SportsManiac View Post
    You'd trade Towns? 0_0
    No! I wouldn't trade Towns. Hell no.


  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    No! I wouldn't trade Towns. Hell no.
    Haha I thought not. As for Wigz and LaVine, I don't know if they're ever gonna work out, sad to say. Right now their games just eclipse one another too much, and neither are good defenders. Hoping with time Wiggins will become strong enough to play SF effectively, but until then, it's gonna be a struggle.


  7. #27
    This should be in the "fix the wolves" thread but since this is more active...

    1. Trade. I'm not sure who we need, but I think Bazz has to go at this point because he has regressed so much. It's really weird. He used to be much more reliable on offense and now he's not hitting any kind of threes and his crafty moves in the post and near the rim have all but disappeared. His transition defense is the worst on our team by far.

    2. We have to make a decision on style of play. Our core players are not synergistic in their strengths. Wiggins and Bazz's style of basketball goes against almost everyone else's. Towns is kinda all over the place and desperately in need of KG by his side for advice. Towns has regressed in mental aspects of the game compared to last year. I think Towns may have underestimated how smart KG is and went to advice from other superstars in the league so he could improve his game quickly. I think its possible one of the pieces of advise from other superstars was to not be passive and actually don't pass the ball that much so that you can figure out how to be dominant in the post. Towns not passing out of double teams quick enough and forcing the issue too much is killing us out there. I think he is capable of being a good passer, but right now, he's worse than Wiggins, and Wiggins is terrible at "quick deceptive passes", the kind that don't get picked off and allow for easy buckets if delivered in the right situations. Bazz is horrible too at those, but he at least used to be quite good at receiving those passes from others. Wiggins can't make nor receive those passes, which sucks for Rubio and our other guards.

    3. I like the idea of stops and easy transition baskets for this team. Most of the good teams have that as part of their repertoire. Our defense and ability to think ahead are not good enough to allow for easy transition baskets. I think the problem is actually with our bigs, not our guards. Dieng kinda has to "load up" before he can extend for blocks and is prone to getting pushed around a bit. I think he has to be more of our 6th-7th off the bench once we become a playoff team. I think Towns needs to be paired with a pek-like beef steak out there or someone like Love who can attract attention all the way out to the 3 point line while also getting boards. We need to find a way for Towns or another big to get back as the anchor for our transition defense too.

    4. Dunn needs to clean it up quickly, because we desperately need someone exactly like what he is capable of. Honestly Rubio is the backup if Dunn can step it up soon.

    5. We need to make changes quickly. The fans are booing. Jim Pete said that a fan at Target center was getting into it with Rubio. LaVine (of all people) had to step in and get Rubio's back. Not good. Is it the worst it's ever been at Target center? Not sure, but there definitely is this feeling that we're cursed.

    6. Glen Taylor, Canis, Trib, kfan, and everyone else that write about the wolves need to start drawing attention to the fact the wolves are playing at a disadvantage each and every night. We can only pay our players 90 cents on the dollar to play in the coldest state in the NBA. That needs to change. We need to have the cap adjusted on a team by team basis based on state income tax for the highest bracket earners. Honestly, I'm pretty convinced now that until we solve that problem, the disadvantage of that and being in the West with so many good teams is too much to overcome to have a chance of being a championship team. If I were someone looking at buying the Wolves, I would for sure make the purchase contingent on the NBA modifying the salary cap rules to even the playing field. It's too much to overcome. Poor Glen is trying his best, but it's a lot.

    7. It would be nice to "make things right" with kg and Sam Mitchell. Sam honestly would be the best assistant Thibs could dream of but that ship has probably sailed. Probably same thing with KG. I think there is some resentment there. KG probably blames Glen for not giving him enough credit for making the Wolves into a legitimate team. No other player in our history comes close to KG as far as what he brought us each and every night. It's not good Karma to flip flop on loyalty as much as Glen does, we need to clean that up and get people back to believing in the organization. That happened with Flip, but we have since regressed.
    Last edited by rackshaq; 12-10-2016 at 05:22 PM.
    The sun shines again in Golden State as the hungry Wolves remain poised for the night to come


  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by rackshaq View Post
    This should be in the "fix the wolves" thread but since this is more active...

    1. Trade. I'm not sure who we need, but I think Bazz has to go at this point because he has regressed so much. It's really weird. He used to be much more reliable on offense and now he's not hitting any kind of threes and his crafty moves in the post and near the rim have all but disappeared. His transition defense is the worst on our team by far.

    2. We have to make a decision on style of play. Our core players are not synergistic in their strengths. Wiggins and Bazz's style of basketball goes against almost everyone else's. Towns is kinda all over the place and desperately in need of KG by his side for advise. Towns has regressed in mental aspects of the game compared to last year. I think Towns may have underestimated how smart KG is and went to advise from other superstars in the league so he could improve his game quickly. I think its possible one of the pieces of advise from other superstars was to not be passive and actually don't pass the ball that much so that you can figure out how to be dominant in the post. Towns not passing out of double teams quick enough and forcing the issue too much is killing us out there. I think he is capable of being a good passer, but right now, he's worse than Wiggins, and Wiggins is terrible at "quick deceptive passes", the kind that don't get picked off and allow for easy buckets if delivered in the right situations. Bazz is horrible too at those, but he at least used to be quite good at receiving those passes from others. Wiggins can't make nor receive those passes, which sucks for Rubio and our other guards.

    3. I like the idea of stops and easy transition baskets for this team. Most of the good teams have that as part of their repertoire. Our defense and ability to think ahead are not good enough to allow for easy transition baskets. I think the problem is actually with our bigs, not our guards. Dieng kinda has to "load up" before he can extend for blocks and is prone to getting pushed around a bit. I think he has to be more of our 6th-7th off the bench once we become a playoff team. I think Towns needs to be paired with a pek-like beef steak out there or someone like Love who can attract attention all the way out to the 3 point line while also getting boards. We need to find a way for Towns or another big to get back as the anchor for our transition defense too.

    4. Dunn needs to clean it up quickly, because we desperately need someone exactly like what he is capable of. Honestly Rubio is the backup if Dunn can step it up soon.

    5. We need to make changes quickly. The fans are booing. Jim Pete said that a fan at Target center was getting into it with Rubio. LaVine (of all people) had to step in and get Rubio's back. Not good. Is it the worst it's ever been at Target center? Not sure, but there definitely is this feeling that we're cursed.

    6. Glen Taylor, Canis, Trib, kfan, and everyone else that write about the wolves need to start drawing attention to the fact the wolves are playing at a disadvantage each and every night. We can only pay our players 90 cents on the dollar to play in the coldest state in the NBA. That needs to change. We need to have the cap adjusted on a team by team basis based on state income tax for the highest bracket earners. Honestly, I'm pretty convinced now that until we solve that problem, the disadvantage of that and being in the West with so many good teams is too much to overcome to have a chance of being a championship team. If I were someone looking at buying the Wolves, I would for sure make the purchase contingent on the NBA modifying the salary cap rules to even the playing field. It's too much to overcome. Poor Glen is trying his best, but it's a lot.

    7. It would be nice to "make things right" with kg and Sam Mitchell. Sam honestly would be the best assistant Thibs could dream of but that ship has probably sailed. Probably same thing with KG. I think there is some resentment there. KG probably blames Glen for not giving him enough credit for making the Wolves into a legitimate team. No other player in our history comes close to KG as far as what he brought us each and every night. It's not good Karma to flip flop on loyalty as much as Glen does, we need to clean that up and get people back to believing in the organization. That happened with Flip, but we have since regressed.
    1. I think everyone is on board with trading Bazz. Not sure we can get anything of value back. Even with that said, I'd just much rather get rid of him. He's such a ball stopper it's not even funny.

    2. It seems the only style of play that suits the Wolves right now is 1 on 1. They cant' execute even the most simple play. I forgot who said it, but the Wolves are #1 in the league in proximity of defenders to the ball when it is shot. Every possession is a battle. I've seen them try to run- which many fans are critical of Thibs for not doing. But goddang we look even worse trying to be uptempo. No spacing, no one gets back on defense. For now Wiggins needs to stop playing hero ball. Stop trying to be Kobe Bryant. Do something else besides trying to score. And Towns just needs to settle down. He's forcing everything. Let the game come to him. He's smart and good enough that I have confidence he'll turn it around very soon.

    3. Towns definitely needs a banger down low with him. Would like to see Jordan Hill get some runs. Our bigs get beat down the court after an offensive possession way too much. It's beyond time Dieng gets demoted to the bench.

    4. Dunn will be fine. He needs more minutes.

    5. Yup, I heard a fan was telling Rubio off and LaVine had to tell the fan to STFU. That's just rude of the fan. I'm as frustrated as any Wolves fan, but to get into with one of our player? Childish.

    6. I don't know much about this topic...

    7. I think Glenn wanted to start fresh from scratch with Thibs, which I also agree with. Thibs has a very proven track record. I'm still not even sure what happened between KG and Thibs/Glenn, but I assume they offered him a mentor role and KG declined. As for Mitchell, it might just be awkward having him around. Dunno what he can offer the team that they already don't have cover. I mean I guess he can be a mentor of some sort too, but him being the HC last year might give him too much influence as an assistant vs. Thibs.


  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by SportsManiac View Post
    1. I think everyone is on board with trading Bazz. Not sure we can get anything of value back. Even with that said, I'd just much rather get rid of him. He's such a ball stopper it's not even funny.

    2. It seems the only style of play that suits the Wolves right now is 1 on 1. They cant' execute even the most simple play. I forgot who said it, but the Wolves are #1 in the league in proximity of defenders to the ball when it is shot. Every possession is a battle. I've seen them try to run- which many fans are critical of Thibs for not doing. But goddang we look even worse trying to be uptempo. No spacing, no one gets back on defense. For now Wiggins needs to stop playing hero ball. Stop trying to be Kobe Bryant. Do something else besides trying to score. And Towns just needs to settle down. He's forcing everything. Let the game come to him. He's smart and good enough that I have confidence he'll turn it around very soon.

    3. Towns definitely needs a banger down low with him. Would like to see Jordan Hill get some runs. Our bigs get beat down the court after an offensive possession way too much. It's beyond time Dieng gets demoted to the bench.

    4. Dunn will be fine. He needs more minutes.

    5. Yup, I heard a fan was telling Rubio off and LaVine had to tell the fan to STFU. That's just rude of the fan. I'm as frustrated as any Wolves fan, but to get into with one of our player? Childish.

    6. I don't know much about this topic...

    7. I think Glenn wanted to start fresh from scratch with Thibs, which I also agree with. Thibs has a very proven track record. I'm still not even sure what happened between KG and Thibs/Glenn, but I assume they offered him a mentor role and KG declined. As for Mitchell, it might just be awkward having him around. Dunno what he can offer the team that they already don't have cover. I mean I guess he can be a mentor of some sort too, but him being the HC last year might give him too much influence as an assistant vs. Thibs.
    2. I think one on one suits Wiggins, because he is one of the best in the NBA at that, but this style is bad for everyone else

    4. I heard the TNT crew talking about more minutes for Dunn too. I think that will help, but Dunn is making boneheaded mistakes out there and that stuff cascades and compounds if there are no repercussions, I.e. bench time. He is going to be very good IMO, but he isn't very good right now on the offensive end.

    6. It's a major problem IMO.

    7. I think having Sam back could actually work. I know it will be a bit weird at first, but Sam knows these kids well after coaching them for a year or two. The kids (and us) wanted to blame our woes on coaching last year, but now its pretty clear that wasn't the main problem. Sam would help if we decide to stick with the core players we have and not make changes. KG would also help. His KGArea segment on TNT is really bad right now. We need a KGArea on the bench next to the kids as an assistant coach
    The sun shines again in Golden State as the hungry Wolves remain poised for the night to come


  10. #30
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    The Wolves have been insulting the basketball gods the past few years and in the end the results just prove how unwitty they have been. They gave opportunities to players fell into oblivion (Big Al and Gerald Green), they tried to twist the game to fit their talents (All O no D, faster pace at all costs) and that puts a toll on the players.

    Comparing Wiggins and Lavine in D is pretty absurd because one of those players is being misused. Wiggins has physical advantage at SG and he's way undersized at SF. The Wolves forgot to use some common tools for the "greater good"- exploit mismatches, put the ball in Ricky's hand, play vets as much as possible, use the doghouse if necessary no matter how talented is the recipient of blame. When you twist the game that much bad things happen. This team could get 15 wins and have some players resigned over 10+ millions per year.

    The issue with the Wolves is the 110+ PPG they get against anything resembling an structured basketball team. Tyus and Lavine aren't the answer. Kill the pace of the game, play to try to win 80-75 and then we can talk about fitting the talent. On a slower pace KAT is still effective and Wiggins too. But the difference is Rubio and Dunn's D may have some use, Wiggins could play some better D at the SG and bring some help defense here and there while your bigger SF brings some consistency to the current porous D.

    While Thibs made his updating course visiting teams in the offseason he probably made a judgement mistake. Teams run more and teams score more but you have to play the brand of basketball which fits your identity. The Wolves had the potential to be a powerhouse in FTA and some players have goto moves. All they need is less ball demanding players and a clearer pecking order. Some guys who are there just not to get in the middle and bring effort. Maybe this team has more of a MEM soul than a GSW one.

    IMO you trade Lavine and Dieng for expirings and this team wins more basketball games. This whole "the end game should be a championship" is not very sensible to reality. The best players show their quality pretty soon in their career and the rest should have a lot less patience to play wannabes. Simply put, if you play like Kobe at a lower capacitty, well, you are useless. Now, if you are a poor man Eddie Jones, we can talk.


  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsManiac View Post
    Got a list of those young players you'd be willing to trad Wigs for? Was just thinking about it for fun too, but even then my list is fairly short.
    Rodney Hood
    Otto Porter
    Trey Lyles

    ...are probably the three that I'd try to get more than anyone at this point. Maybe a big after that (Noel, Olynyk)

    I've been very impressed with Otto Porter's growth the past couple of years. He's quickly becoming a nice player and a good defender.
    Inching back towards the wagon...slowly...


  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by The Country Club View Post
    Rodney Hood
    Otto Porter
    Trey Lyles

    ...are probably the three that I'd try to get more than anyone at this point. Maybe a big after that (Noel, Olynyk)

    I've been very impressed with Otto Porter's growth the past couple of years. He's quickly becoming a nice player and a good defender.
    I loved Porter in the draft, and am really happy to see him starting the scratch his potential. If there are signs that Washington won't match a big offer, he'd be my FA target.


  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by pagliatti View Post
    The Wolves have been insulting the basketball gods the past few years and in the end the results just prove how unwitty they have been. They gave opportunities to players fell into oblivion (Big Al and Gerald Green), they tried to twist the game to fit their talents (All O no D, faster pace at all costs) and that puts a toll on the players.

    Comparing Wiggins and Lavine in D is pretty absurd because one of those players is being misused. Wiggins has physical advantage at SG and he's way undersized at SF. The Wolves forgot to use some common tools for the "greater good"- exploit mismatches, put the ball in Ricky's hand, play vets as much as possible, use the doghouse if necessary no matter how talented is the recipient of blame. When you twist the game that much bad things happen. This team could get 15 wins and have some players resigned over 10+ millions per year.

    The issue with the Wolves is the 110+ PPG they get against anything resembling an structured basketball team. Tyus and Lavine aren't the answer. Kill the pace of the game, play to try to win 80-75 and then we can talk about fitting the talent. On a slower pace KAT is still effective and Wiggins too. But the difference is Rubio and Dunn's D may have some use, Wiggins could play some better D at the SG and bring some help defense here and there while your bigger SF brings some consistency to the current porous D.

    While Thibs made his updating course visiting teams in the offseason he probably made a judgement mistake. Teams run more and teams score more but you have to play the brand of basketball which fits your identity. The Wolves had the potential to be a powerhouse in FTA and some players have goto moves. All they need is less ball demanding players and a clearer pecking order. Some guys who are there just not to get in the middle and bring effort. Maybe this team has more of a MEM soul than a GSW one.

    IMO you trade Lavine and Dieng for expirings and this team wins more basketball games. This whole "the end game should be a championship" is not very sensible to reality. The best players show their quality pretty soon in their career and the rest should have a lot less patience to play wannabes. Simply put, if you play like Kobe at a lower capacitty, well, you are useless. Now, if you are a poor man Eddie Jones, we can talk.
    I think playing slow is a mistake given the talent and general athleticism on the roster. And Thibs has the Wolves playing a slightly slower pace than last season...problem is their defense is even worse *this* season than last year...especially inside the 3 pt line. Their 2-pt FG% against is 53%...12th worst ALL-TIME.

    http://bkref.com/tiny/LCK2D

    Slowing the game down doesn't matter one f**king bit if you can't defend your shadow.
    Inching back towards the wagon...slowly...


  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by LEvine View Post
    I loved Porter in the draft, and am really happy to see him starting the scratch his potential. If there are signs that Washington won't match a big offer, he'd be my FA target.
    Porter would be interesting, to be sure. But he would do nothing to help our defense, and considering that it'll take an absolute max offer (which Wizards still might / probably would match), I think I'd pass. I really want to move Wiggins to full-time SG and have Lavine off the bench. I'm actually a bit intrigued by going after Roberson. Patrick Patterson is also very high up on my list of FA targets.


  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by da_blueprint View Post
    Porter would be interesting, to be sure. But he would do nothing to help our defense, and considering that it'll take an absolute max offer (which Wizards still might / probably would match), I think I'd pass. I really want to move Wiggins to full-time SG and have Lavine off the bench. I'm actually a bit intrigued by going after Roberson. Patrick Patterson is also very high up on my list of FA targets.
    Porter appears to be one of two plus defenders on that squad (Gortat). I like the idea of a SF who can do a bit of everything and doesn't need the ball in his hands all the time. I like his potential as a small ball 4 as well.

    I want to see what Zach can do at SG when he isn't being eclipsed by Drew. The last few games have shown a ton of growth from LaVine and I'm starting to see a better offensive player than what I think Wiggins tops out as.


  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Country Club View Post
    I think playing slow is a mistake given the talent and general athleticism on the roster. And Thibs has the Wolves playing a slightly slower pace than last season...problem is their defense is even worse *this* season than last year...especially inside the 3 pt line. Their 2-pt FG% against is 53%...12th worst ALL-TIME.

    http://bkref.com/tiny/LCK2D

    Slowing the game down doesn't matter one f**king bit if you can't defend your shadow.
    Trading less baskets helps young players in many ways: confidence, seeing what sticks, placing the blame in the correct pieces and sitting whomever doesn´t put the effort or doesn't get to an acceptable threshold.

    Many players would benefit in a slower pace, in fact you may be able to play guys like Dunn, Cole, JHill or even Payne more and other players seem to prefer the correct play instead of a good look. It's a pretty american POV, "he passed up a good shot", well it happens all the time for players like Rubio or Bjelica and they are cool with that because a decent team is expected to create multiple quality looks in a single possession.

    The main issue with the slow pace is to get to the line enough and also be able to get shots off when it isn't pretty (look at the collection of circus shots of Memphis). Not volume but situational shots: KAT, Bjelica, Wiggins and Rush are taking those.

    Basketball is a mental game, most Wolves know they can't sustain decent defense through long stretches, they are going to suffer a mean streak sooner or later-generally later, I guess. They can't defend their shadow because they put themselves into that hole, I don't think Rubio forgot what D is, I don't think Dunn is nowhere near useless in D and guys like Aldrich or even JHill and Payne have tools. Not playing any competent SF-while playing a worse defensive SG at the same time- and the massive overrate of Dieng have a lot in common with the perception of their defensive options.

    A couple average defenders and a lot of me first players as your rotation nets you guaranteed defensive failure. Trying to cheat the system running up the scores may give you limited success in some cases but it isn't particularly sustainable.


  17. #37
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    From what I'm seeing I think Zach has more upside than Drew, but Andrew is better suited at SG, having Zach come off the bench would probably make him want a different situation and make it hard to keep him.

    Someone like Paul George would be a better fit for us, if Wiggins for George is realistic ...that's another story.


    Towns needs to play Center, but Dieng isn't a good fit with him at PF, as mentioned a Chandler type player at PF would probably be more ideal.


  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pagliatti View Post
    Trading less baskets helps young players in many ways: confidence, seeing what sticks, placing the blame in the correct pieces and sitting whomever doesn´t put the effort or doesn't get to an acceptable threshold.

    Many players would benefit in a slower pace, in fact you may be able to play guys like Dunn, Cole, JHill or even Payne more and other players seem to prefer the correct play instead of a good look. It's a pretty american POV, "he passed up a good shot", well it happens all the time for players like Rubio or Bjelica and they are cool with that because a decent team is expected to create multiple quality looks in a single possession.

    The main issue with the slow pace is to get to the line enough and also be able to get shots off when it isn't pretty (look at the collection of circus shots of Memphis). Not volume but situational shots: KAT, Bjelica, Wiggins and Rush are taking those.

    Basketball is a mental game, most Wolves know they can't sustain decent defense through long stretches, they are going to suffer a mean streak sooner or later-generally later, I guess. They can't defend their shadow because they put themselves into that hole, I don't think Rubio forgot what D is, I don't think Dunn is nowhere near useless in D and guys like Aldrich or even JHill and Payne have tools. Not playing any competent SF-while playing a worse defensive SG at the same time- and the massive overrate of Dieng have a lot in common with the perception of their defensive options.

    A couple average defenders and a lot of me first players as your rotation nets you guaranteed defensive failure. Trying to cheat the system running up the scores may give you limited success in some cases but it isn't particularly sustainable.
    Every single one of your posts places the blame solely on LaVine and Dieng. It's like you are watching different games than the rest of us. Is it LaVine's fault that Wiggins has yet to reach 200 pounds? At 6'8", Wiggins is a good height for a SF. He just needs to bulk up. Further, Wiggins is not a defensive savant in comparison with LaVine. He's just a tad better on that end. Meanwhile, LaVine is actually a more efficient shooter than Wiggins right now, and yet somehow you think the team is having problems because LaVine is taking away shots from Wiggins?! Perhaps it's the other way around.

    As for Dieng, you call him "massively overrated", and yet advanced stats view him favorably and his contract is reasonable. I don't think anyone is overrating him. Most everyone would consider him our 5th best player. He might not be a good match with Towns, but Dieng is hardly our biggest problem right now.

    We're just young and learning to play together. Wiggins and Towns are part of the problem right now, as well. We might have to eventually make some trades to make our lineup more balanced, but scrambling to trade LaVine and Dieng right now would not be in the best interests of the team long-term.


  19. #39
    I like Porter but I'd like to put Trey Lyles next to Towns.


  20. #40
    Join Date
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    Posts
    17,262
    Quote Originally Posted by pagliatti View Post
    Trading less baskets helps young players in many ways: confidence, seeing what sticks, placing the blame in the correct pieces and sitting whomever doesn´t put the effort or doesn't get to an acceptable threshold.

    Many players would benefit in a slower pace, in fact you may be able to play guys like Dunn, Cole, JHill or even Payne more and other players seem to prefer the correct play instead of a good look. It's a pretty american POV, "he passed up a good shot", well it happens all the time for players like Rubio or Bjelica and they are cool with that because a decent team is expected to create multiple quality looks in a single possession.
    If you're not a smart basketball team, it's doubtful you'll learn regardless of pace.

    You may trade fewer baskets but if you're still getting blitzed at 52, 53% clips inside of the 3 point line it doesn't matter if you play Fratello-style clock-miking or if you're coached by Mike D'Antoni...you're going to lose.

    The team's challenges are a lack of hustle overall, a lack of intelligence by some, and that some guys just aren't good defenders. The last point probably isn't going to change in a few cases and you may need to look at moving them (Wiggins) if they don't improve on D.
    Inching back towards the wagon...slowly...



 

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