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  1. #1
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    If you had to trade Wigz or Lavine.....

    Obviously not something that can happen based on salary...but lets pretend for a moment that all the salaries match up perfectly. If the LA Clippers called you up today and said "I'll give you Blake Griffith for either Andrew Wiggins or Zach Lavine"......which do you trade?

    This is kind of like a thread I started last year in which has the higher ceiling. There can be a case made for both. Last night was another good showing for Zach and showed more of the potential that he has. I do believe Zach is more consistant.

    I honestly dont know which I'd prefer to keep. I guess "gun to my head" I'd trade Lavine and keep Wiggins..but I dont know its that easy.

  2. #2
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    I think I trade Drew. Both guys are the same age, but Zach seems to be improving/evolving at so much faster of a rate.

    My biggest concern is defense. Both guys are horrible right now, and Drew definitely has the physical edge over Zach. But I also get the feeling that Zach is more willing to try, he's just really bad. Ideally we put a rugged defensive SF next to either guy and that helps mitigate their defensive shortcomings. I'm really hoping for OG in the draft. Looks to be the ideal 3&D guy we need, and should be able to regularly guard 2-4 - and be able to switch on 1s and some 5s.

    I posted in the game thread that I thought Zach played one of his best games ever last night, and I have 2 more thoughts:

    1. It might've been the first game where a team really went after him like a #1 scoring option (when Drew was out of the game), and he rose to the occasion. If he can do that regularly, he can be a star (at least on offense). I think last night also pointed out 1 major difference between Zach and Drew. Zach is really learning to read defenses. How to attack different looks and how to take advantage of what they give you. Drew, on the other hand, appears to decide what he's gong to do before the defense sets, and he sticks to it no matter what.

    2. One of Zach's biggest weaknesses has been a complete inability to feed the post. He almost always goes for the "over the top of the defender" pass, and it's almost never successful. Comically bad. But last night he did this - and it was awesome:


  3. #3
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    It would depend on who we were getting. If it were Blake, I would decline without a signed extension.

    I would be fine trading either of them if the team was better overall. But, I would want a true 4 who can defend well for one of them, and I would want them for more than 1.5 years guaranteed. I think we keep Wiggins if we feel we need a Kobe-like closer; the guy you can give the ball to in isolation and know you will get a shot off or go to the Free Throw line. Zach fits better in a movement offense. He has a quick trigger off a pick behind the arc and he makes really good cuts off the ball.

    If we are going to continue to use Rubio as a spot up shooter, I would keep Wiggins. If we are going to allow Ricky to do what Ricky does best and actually be a point guard, then I would probably keep LaVine. But, I can't honestly think of a trade that I pull the trigger on without some serious thought that doesn't involve Draymond Green, and that isn't happening.

  4. #4
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    I don't think Ricky should be factored in.

    I'm about 95% sure he isn't part of Thibs plans.

  5. #5
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    I'd still trade Lavine. I think Wiggins has a better chance to become a championship-caliber #2. I'm not sure Lavine's upside allows for that.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceswired View Post
    I'd still trade Lavine. I think Wiggins has a better chance to become a championship-caliber #2. I'm not sure Lavine's upside allows for that.
    You don't trade either because I doubt you'd get value. For all of Wiggins problems he can go and get you a basket by himself in a variety of ways, and that's still really valuable. His defensive upside may have been overestimated, but Thibs seems determined to make him into Jimmy Butler, and I say let him try. When I see what DeRozean has become, and remember what he looked like the first couple years it makes me appreciate the value of patience. As far as LaVine, that guy is absolutely blowing up right now. He's making the Westbrook comparisons look less ridiculous.

  7. #7
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    I wouldn't be surprised if Wiggins is at his peak trade value right now. 1.5 years of rookie contract left, and some will think he still has superstar potential.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by LEvine View Post
    I think I trade Drew. Both guys are the same age, but Zach seems to be improving/evolving at so much faster of a rate.

    My biggest concern is defense. Both guys are horrible right now, and Drew definitely has the physical edge over Zach. But I also get the feeling that Zach is more willing to try, he's just really bad. Ideally we put a rugged defensive SF next to either guy and that helps mitigate their defensive shortcomings. I'm really hoping for OG in the draft. Looks to be the ideal 3&D guy we need, and should be able to regularly guard 2-4 - and be able to switch on 1s and some 5s.

    I posted in the game thread that I thought Zach played one of his best games ever last night, and I have 2 more thoughts:

    1. It might've been the first game where a team really went after him like a #1 scoring option (when Drew was out of the game), and he rose to the occasion. If he can do that regularly, he can be a star (at least on offense). I think last night also pointed out 1 major difference between Zach and Drew. Zach is really learning to read defenses. How to attack different looks and how to take advantage of what they give you. Drew, on the other hand, appears to decide what he's gong to do before the defense sets, and he sticks to it no matter what.

    2. One of Zach's biggest weaknesses has been a complete inability to feed the post. He almost always goes for the "over the top of the defender" pass, and it's almost never successful. Comically bad. But last night he did this - and it was awesome:

    It's a lot closer than many would have thought including me. I think you're right to touch on the rate of improvement. Zach appears to be approving by a faster rate. If that continues, how soon until he surpasses Wiggins? In addition to the other reasons you mentioned, I also agree with the sentiment out there that Zach has an edge to him that Wiggins doesn't seem to show?

    Additionally, I think you get a better return for Wiggins.

    Could names like John Wall or Paul George become available if their teams continue to disappoint?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEvine View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if Wiggins is at his peak trade value right now. 1.5 years of rookie contract left, and some will think he still has superstar potential.
    Even so what could you get for him? Wolves will not get a superstar in his prime for him, that's not the way it works. Probably a package of picks, but that could be risky. Would you trade him for Lorenzo Ball? Wiggins for George could probably be had, but he's going to be declining in 2-3 years when the Wolves want to make their push. Wall could be had, but teams are realizing he has more warts than previously thought. Maybe youth for youth like Russell? Again he has his own issues. Wiggins has a lot going from him, but has become the natural target for Wolves fans frustrations right now. I'd be more interested in adding to the team than subtracting.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ Styles View Post
    It would depend on who we were getting. If it were Blake, I would decline without a signed extension.

    I would be fine trading either of them if the team was better overall. But, I would want a true 4 who can defend well for one of them, and I would want them for more than 1.5 years guaranteed. I think we keep Wiggins if we feel we need a Kobe-like closer; the guy you can give the ball to in isolation and know you will get a shot off or go to the Free Throw line. Zach fits better in a movement offense. He has a quick trigger off a pick behind the arc and he makes really good cuts off the ball.

    If we are going to continue to use Rubio as a spot up shooter, I would keep Wiggins. If we are going to allow Ricky to do what Ricky does best and actually be a point guard, then I would probably keep LaVine. But, I can't honestly think of a trade that I pull the trigger on without some serious thought that doesn't involve Draymond Green, and that isn't happening.
    I think your missing the point of my question. Let me ask again:
    Team X is willing to give us player Y.....who we really really want and need. However, they will only give us player Y if we give them either Wiggins or Lavine. We can choose who goes out to get in player Y.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by stlouiswolf View Post
    Even so what could you get for him? Wolves will not get a superstar in his prime for him, that's not the way it works. Probably a package of picks, but that could be risky. Would you trade him for Lorenzo Ball? Wiggins for George could probably be had, but he's going to be declining in 2-3 years when the Wolves want to make their push. Wall could be had, but teams are realizing he has more warts than previously thought. Maybe youth for youth like Russell? Again he has his own issues. Wiggins has a lot going from him, but has become the natural target for Wolves fans frustrations right now. I'd be more interested in adding to the team than subtracting.
    Paul George? Yes please.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlouiswolf View Post
    Even so what could you get for him? Wolves will not get a superstar in his prime for him, that's not the way it works. Probably a package of picks, but that could be risky. Would you trade him for Lorenzo Ball? Wiggins for George could probably be had, but he's going to be declining in 2-3 years when the Wolves want to make their push. Wall could be had, but teams are realizing he has more warts than previously thought. Maybe youth for youth like Russell? Again he has his own issues. Wiggins has a lot going from him, but has become the natural target for Wolves fans frustrations right now. I'd be more interested in adding to the team than subtracting.
    I'm not worried about George declining at 28-29 years old. I'd guess he's got an easy 6+ years left at All-Star level.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingsxman View Post
    I think your missing the point of my question. Let me ask again:
    Team X is willing to give us player Y.....who we really really want and need. However, they will only give us player Y if we give them either Wiggins or Lavine. We can choose who goes out to get in player Y.
    I got the point of your question; my answer is: depends on who Y is. I think LaVine and Wiggins are both very different players. It depends on what the identity of the team is after the trade. If we are featuring a lot of isolation or two-man game with Towns, I would keep Wiggins. If we are featuring more ball movement and spacing, I would keep LaVine.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ Styles View Post
    I got the point of your question; my answer is: depends on who Y is. I think LaVine and Wiggins are both very different players. It depends on what the identity of the team is after the trade. If we are featuring a lot of isolation or two-man game with Towns, I would keep Wiggins. If we are featuring more ball movement and spacing, I would keep LaVine.
    Gotcha. My guess is its the first. Because if you have a Rubio on your team and refuse to use him in a manner that suits his skillset....then I dont see that changing anytime soon.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingsxman View Post
    Gotcha. My guess is its the first. Because if you have a Rubio on your team and refuse to use him in a manner that suits his skillset....then I dont see that changing anytime soon.
    Yeah, I am not sure what I think is most likely with this situation: 1) Thibs is force-feeding the youth development by temporarily taking the ball out of Rubio's hands an obscene amount; 2) Thibs honestly believes Rubio is best suited for how Spain used him as a 3&D PG; or 3) Thibs is using Rubio as a stopgap for Dunn/Tyus or prepping for a trade of Rubio for someone else. I see reason(s) to believe it could be any of those things.

    I do, however, think that what we are seeing of Rubio is temporary. Even if Thibs has him as a 3&D guy, I just can't see him staying in the 12% usage arena. This season, for all players starting at least 10 games, Rubio has the 12th lowest usage in the league. I can't imagine that the goal is to keep this going. This just does not feel like the end-game in that regard. Either Rubio is going to get traded or there is going to be some sort of shakeup on how the offense is being run. I can't imagine it is like this after the ASB.

  16. #16
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    Their value are very close right now (to the Wolves). Both are oozing with talent. I'm more surprised by LEvine's support of LaVine

    Well it's very hard to say, and even though I just ORDERED a Wiggn's jersey, RIGHT NOW my answer would be Wiggins. I also think he could fetch a realistically higher package in return. And for what it's worth, I would NOT trade him for Blake Grififn, even if Blake agrees to sign an extension. Towns/Griffin would get annihilated down low every night.

  17. #17
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    This all depends on what we are getting in return. If I were to offer one or the other I would put Wiggins up first. I just wish that it didn't come to this and prefer that we never hired Thibs but he's here and we will have deal with it.
    Publicity, fame and accolades can make a theory popular. They can't make it true.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsManiac View Post
    Their value are very close right now (to the Wolves). Both are oozing with talent. I'm more surprised by LEvine's support of LaVine
    Kid is winning me over. Big time.

    And while Drew (and KAT) appears to be regressing, Zach just keeps upping his game.
    Last edited by LEvine; 12-10-2016 at 12:02 PM.

  19. #19
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    Even Britt is slowly jumping on the bandwagon:

    brittrobson ‏@brittrobson 17h17 hours ago
    LaVine having a great game. Moving without the ball expertly. Shot/pass selection superb. Bravo

    brittrobson ‏@brittrobson 17h17 hours ago
    LaVine has grown to pt where he surprises teammates w/appropriate passes

  20. #20
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    Wiggins definitely would be the first of the big 3 to get moved. I am thinking about this a bit today and given how awfully he's been in defensive metrics (and watching the Toronto game got me thinking on it), I would not be upset if he were dealt....but I would only deal him for a young player instead of trying to get into win now mode.
    Inching back towards the wagon...slowly...


 

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