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Thread: QB next season

  1. #41
    I keep going back to a few questions with our QB situation.

    - What are the chances that Case Keenum performs at the same or a higher level next year than he did this season?

    - What are the odds Cousins in that same spot would perform at whatever level we could get out of Case going forward?

    You are likely guaranteeing Kirk 4-5 years of starting QB play based on his contract and Case only 1, potentially 2 or 3 if they are very confident in him with an opt out of some sort. It's possible that Case took a leap but it's just as possible that this was a career year. I don't realistically think it's likely that Case out performs Cousins next year in the exact same situation and he could be dramatically worse. And if he is worse, you are in the QB carousel again, which this franchise perpetually finds itself in. Cousins is just a much safer bet in my opinion to perform at a consistently above average to high level over the next 3-5 years than I think Case is even if he is costing you more cap wise.

    The other Cousins question is who is he going to cost you long term? It may be tough to lose a Barr or Waynes but if the trade off is consistent, quality QB play, I don't think that's a tough trade off.

    I think if we can get away with paying Cousins an average of $25M a year, you do it. If the first year is really heavy ($40M in guarantees in 1 year maybe, $70M in first two years) I think you can get his salary closer to that level. I start to get uncomfortable if his cap number is around $30M a year but I still think about it. That might be a walking point though. Hopefully he's willing to take slightly less than the max offer he gets. I can't imagine we can compete with the Jets or Browns offers but I would personally draft QB's if I'm both of those franchises and maybe that's the route they go.
    Last edited by Cory; 03-01-2018 at 12:26 PM.


  2. #42
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    If I remember correctly, "Franchise and Trade" is a thing in the NFL, right? Any realistic chance of being able to, say, franchise Keenum, sign Bridgewater, and sign someone like Keenum when we signed him (a solid game manager flying under the radar), and let them battle it out in training camp, then deal whomever doesn't win the starting spot. I suspect there are several teams that would give a mid-round pick for Teddy on a reasonable contract before the season starts, especially if they have an injury or don't like what they see from the guys they signed. That is more assets than we would have just letting him walk. And, if Keenum is the one we deal, it is possible some team like Cleveland might give a first or second rounder for him if they don't land someone big in the draft.

    I will say that I get the concern as to whether our current QBs on the roster can match or exceed Keenum's play last season, but maybe they don't need to. We lost Cook early. His return will change the dynamic of the offense. I get that he is likely to be missing a step when he gets back, but if he can be pretty close to full strength by mid season, I am not sure we actually drop off effectiveness in the offense even if our QB isn't meeting the level of play Keenum had last season.

    My biggest concern is OC. I finally felt like we had a competent OC that knew how to call plays in today's NFL. I personally feel that a large amount of the offenses' success was due to him. Having an OC that knows what a screen pass is and an offensive line was competent was, IMO, 50%+ of the equation. Having reliable targets at every skill position was helpful, too. I get we didn't have any elite players in the skill positions, but I also don't remember a whole heck of a lot of drops, or interceptions due to our players playing lazy. It changes the way you can approach the game as a QB if you know that if you get the ball where it needs to be your receiver is going to end up with a reception. I don't want to take away from Keenum, because he did play his *** off, but I think there is more to why we haven't really missed a step when it was Teddy, Bradford or Keenum behind center. And a huge part of it, IMO, is that we finally had an OC that got how to use the pieces we have to their best potential. He was able to make little changes to get each QB the things they needed without completely overhauling the offense. I am worried about how we move forward from here in the OC department, because I don't think I am exaggerating when I say I have never liked a Vikings OC until Shurmur since I knew what an OC was.


  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ Styles View Post
    If I remember correctly, "Franchise and Trade" is a thing in the NFL, right?
    It really isn't.

    The Exclusive Franchise Tag means the player can only negotiate with his current team. For Keenum it would be a 1 year deal for ~24M. Its very unlikely teams would trade anything of value to "rent" Case Keenum for 1 year at that price. The only advantage they'd gain for next year is the ability to franchise him again.

    The Non-Exclusive Franchise Tag means the player can negotiate a contract with any other team, but if he agrees to terms with someone else, we'd have the right to match the deal. If we don't match, the team gives us TWO 1st round picks. If no other team offers him a deal (and none would), he again plays for us for 1 year and ~24M.

    Also, you run a serious risk of a grievance by the Players Union, as there is apparently a "good-faith" aspect to the franchise tag to prevent such "franchise and trade" deals from happening.


  4. #44
    Regarding the "good-faith", we can even compare the "sign and franchise" idea to an NBA "sign and trade".

    1. In an NBA sign and trade, the deal is contingent on the player going where he chooses. Its impossible to force a sign and trade.
    2. Its an immediate deal. The trade is part of the signing process. You can't do the sign and then decide to do the trade in training camp.
    3. While it is possible to sign a player and later trade him, there is a significant "waiting period" until you can do that - and its well into the season.

    All of that is in place to protect the players and to keep teams from abusing free agents.


  5. #45
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    For some reason, I was thinking the Patriots/Cassel thing was more recent than it was. But, 2009 was a long time (and a CBA) ago, so that changes things. I thought Green Bay did this last year, too, but I can't seem to find any information on that, so I am probably just crazy. I also thought the Eagles did that with Kolb to the Cardinals, but I looked it up and that was just a straight up trade. Well, it was a straight up theft, but it wasn't a "franchise and trade" scenario.

    Well, then I am conflicted. I do hope that we keep Bridgewater. Even if they go out and get someone like Cousins, I like having a backup that I like and have faith in. I don't want to go back to having someone like Ponder (whom I liked and had zero faith in) as the backup. I do get all the digs on his game, but I still really like what he does on the field. It just doesn't feel like a game of Jenga when Bridgewater is behind center.


  6. #46
    Oh, 1 more thing.

    Technically we could franchise Case and come to a long term deal with him instead of having him play under the tag for a year. But then it would still be nearly impossible to trade him as any future guaranteed money would immediately become due on trade. (Which is why you almost never see high salary guys get traded in their first year or 2)


  7. #47
    I am not going to get all upset no matter who this team signs. OK if they go after AJ MCarron or Bradford as the starters I will question their sanity but the front office has earned the right imo to be trusted with this decision. I am not a huge fan of any of the QB's mentioned this offseason but one will have to be our starter. I just hope they are not to short sighted no matter who they sign. As a fan I am tired of the Vikings constant shuffle at QB, The Twins constant SS changes over the last 20 years, and the rest of the constant open positions with Minnesota sports teams. Lets find a guy who can be the man and then pray he stays healthy for longer than a year.
    It doesn’t matter if you are a king or street sweeper pretty soon you will dance with the reaper!

    Its better to be silent and everyone think your an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    “Statistics are no substitute for judgment”
    Henry Clay


  8. #48
    NFL free agency hasn't even started. Teams can’t negotiate with impending free agents until Monday. So how are we even hearing reports of players heading to specific teams? Well, the NFL has not done a tremendous job keeping teams in check in this regard. The plethora of reports linking Kirk Cousins to the Minnesota Vikings is the latest example of this.

    Now, according to SiriusXM Radio’s Adam Caplan (h/t Zig Fracassi of the same outlet), indications are that Cousins will sign a free agent deal with Minnesota once the market opens up on Wednesday. Said deal is expected to value Cousin at $27-plus million per season.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...BK5wso?ocid=st
    Last edited by LEvine; 03-10-2018 at 10:46 PM.


  9. #49
    Join Date
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    $27 million. Hmm. Well if we were going to sign him, that's less than I might have expected. I really thought it would take close to $30.


  10. #50
    Cousins will be a Viking for $28 million per year. Signing expected tomorrow.
    It doesn’t matter if you are a king or street sweeper pretty soon you will dance with the reaper!

    Its better to be silent and everyone think your an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    “Statistics are no substitute for judgment”
    Henry Clay


  11. #51
    Updated 3 years $84 million.
    It doesn’t matter if you are a king or street sweeper pretty soon you will dance with the reaper!

    Its better to be silent and everyone think your an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    “Statistics are no substitute for judgment”
    Henry Clay


  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    9,366
    Yep, that is the rumor. The Vikings are going all in again on a QB to get to the SB. The last time was with Favre.
    Lets hope that this is the piece they needed.
    I think the rest of the team is set for a run.
    The only concern now would be OL depth and DT depth.


    Robert


  13. #53
    Still $24 million under the cap. Need a starting DT and a lineman on offense.
    It doesn’t matter if you are a king or street sweeper pretty soon you will dance with the reaper!

    Its better to be silent and everyone think your an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    “Statistics are no substitute for judgment”
    Henry Clay


  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf on the Prowl View Post
    Still $24 million under the cap. Need a starting DT and a lineman on offense.
    I kind of expect the draft to be a heavy OL area. We may sign some depth guys in case Berger retires but putting a 2nd round tag on Easton makes it likely that he returns. Drafting the Ohio State kid that tore his pec at the combine but had been another 3 or 4 year starter along with Elflein would be a great fit if he pans out. It seems like there is tackle depth as well. I'd be fine with going G in the first round and T in the 2nd and then looking for value with our remaining picks.

    Getting Richardson would be a good need fit combo. Not sure who else would even be an option.


  15. #55
    By all accounts Remmers is moving to RG which is better than RT the guy is terrible and was a bad signing. If we sign Richardson the offensive line becomes the spot for pick #30. First option is going to be RT which has a few options. G/C will be a need for depth purposes. It will be interesting how the draft shakes out because our few needs match the strengths of the draft.
    It doesn’t matter if you are a king or street sweeper pretty soon you will dance with the reaper!

    Its better to be silent and everyone think your an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    “Statistics are no substitute for judgment”
    Henry Clay


  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    9,366
    As for Keenum, he was a product of the system and WR's. I do not think he will repeat the performance again.
    Cousin's has thrown over 4000 yards how many years in a row?

    And it appears the Vikings are going to go all in with Richardson at DT. He came for a visit and still has not left.


  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf on the Prowl View Post
    By all accounts Remmers is moving to RG which is better than RT the guy is terrible and was a bad signing. If we sign Richardson the offensive line becomes the spot for pick #30. First option is going to be RT which has a few options. G/C will be a need for depth purposes. It will be interesting how the draft shakes out because our few needs match the strengths of the draft.
    I agree. Remmers played the first 5 or 6 games at RT before he got hurt. My impression was he did a very good job there. Am I mistaken? If so I'm all for taking a RT with our 1st round pick. I might look for another DB with our 2nd rd pick and a runningback with the 3rd. I would also take another developmental OL in the 4th or 5th round. I might look at a wide receiver as well. You can't have enough OL and DB depth.

    The Vikes should be really good this year. Of course I thought the Wolves were going to be great. In my wildest dreams did I ever think I'd be this wrong.


  18. #58
    What are you so wrong about?
    It doesn’t matter if you are a king or street sweeper pretty soon you will dance with the reaper!

    Its better to be silent and everyone think your an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    “Statistics are no substitute for judgment”
    Henry Clay


  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf on the Prowl View Post
    What are you so wrong about?
    The Wolves have played far below expectations considering their talent. I thought they'd win 50-54 games and finish 4th or 5th. Those numbers were easily obtainable if they just took care of business with lottery teams more often than not.


  20. #60
    It’s never easy the first year you break through especially with the Butler injuries. That’s your expectations I guess my concern was simply making the playoffs as long as they do that my expectations will be met. It’s all we are going to get as long as Thibs is coach.
    It doesn’t matter if you are a king or street sweeper pretty soon you will dance with the reaper!

    Its better to be silent and everyone think your an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    “Statistics are no substitute for judgment”
    Henry Clay



 

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