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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    My argument Levine is PG is the most important position on the floor. You can't skimp there unless you have Jordan, Pippen, or Shaq, Kobe.

    We need to spend what is required to get a big time player there. Skimp somewhere else. We just paid Gorgui 16 million per year.
    LA_33 already debunked this idea. Twice.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEvine View Post
    Such a strange time to be on an anti-Rubio jag...

    He's currently shooting a career high from the field. His usage has been going up every month and his efficiency has been rising with it. He's coming off a great January (10/10) where he shot a respectable 41% (and had a 55% TS%).

    He's been a terrific midrange shooter this year. He's at 50% from 10-16 and 44% from 16 <3.

    He's on one of his best scoring streaks in his career. Past 5 games: 16 PPG on 43/46/85 with at least two 3PM in 3 of the 5 games.

    He's been under 10 points in only 3 of the past 14 games (and one of them he played 16 minutes before leaving with a minor injury).

    And by RPM, he's been the clear 2nd best defensive PG in the game this year.
    I can't like this post enough.
    Inching back towards the wagon...slowly...

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    My argument Levine is PG is the most important position on the floor. You can't skimp there unless you have Jordan, Pippen, or Shaq, Kobe.

    We need to spend what is required to get a big time player there. Skimp somewhere else. We just paid Gorgui 16 million per year.
    Its absolutely not the most important position on the floor. Especially from a scoring standpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by LA_33
    Remember, again, that other than Steph and Kyrie the last two years, Tony Parker is the only title-winning PG since Magic who averaged more than 10 PPG (and Magic was 6'9" and started at center in a Finals game in one of his championship seasons). Those guys are anomalies among championship PGs, not the norm.

  4. #44
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    The idea of trading Rubio is f**king idiotic unless you can clearly upgrade the position...but right now you have a point guard that's elite as a passer, very good as a defender, and is now becoming competent as a shooter. If he can stay competent, he ends up being Kidd-lite (arguably better passer, not as good on D). That's good enough with a developing core of players to win a boatload of games in a few years.

    And Rubio with a 40-35-85 shooting line is pretty comparable offensively to what Kidd shot with less usage and a better FT percentage. And most of us would probably like a Kidd type point guard running an offense.

    And besides, Rubio hitting 33-35% of his 3's would be enough of a check on double teams on either Wiggins (or whoever), Lavine (or whoever), and KAT to keep the offense opened up and effective.
    Inching back towards the wagon...slowly...

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ Styles View Post
    LA_33 already debunked this idea. Twice.
    I respect LA33 a lot but just because he "debunked" it doesn't mean I can't have a different opinion.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA_33 View Post
    Remember, again, that other than Steph and Kyrie the last two years, Tony Parker is the only title-winning PG since Magic who averaged more than 10 PPG (and Magic was 6'9" and started at center in a Finals game in one of his championship seasons). Those guys are anomalies among championship PGs, not the norm.
    Not to pick nits but the 3 Detroit titles were PG dominant too...

    Thomas averaged 28 in '90, 21 in '89 Finals
    Billups averaged 20+ in '04.

    Plus there were a bunch of third/fourth wheel PG in title teams that averaged 10+ in the Finals itself.

    Chalmers (10.6 in the Finals in '13)
    Fisher (11 in the Finals in '09)
    BJ Armstrong (13.8 in '93)
    Sam Cassell in both Houston titles (off the bench so this is an asterisk since he played 3rd guard)

    ...but yeah, it's not like the two guard or small forward which have generally been among the more dominant "need" spots (or center in ages past).
    Inching back towards the wagon...slowly...

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Country Club View Post
    I can't like this post enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Country Club View Post
    Not to pick nits but the 3 Detroit titles were PG dominant too...

    Thomas averaged 28 in '90, 21 in '89 Finals
    Billups averaged 20+ in '04.

    Plus there were a bunch of third/fourth wheel PG in title teams that averaged 10+ in the Finals itself.

    Chalmers (10.6 in the Finals in '13)
    Fisher (11 in the Finals in '09)
    BJ Armstrong (13.8 in '93)
    Sam Cassell in both Houston titles (off the bench so this is an asterisk since he played 3rd guard)

    ...but yeah, it's not like the two guard or small forward which have generally been among the more dominant "need" spots (or center in ages past).
    The other thing about that is for 11 out of those 25 years Phil Jackson coaches the triangle offense which marginalizes the PG.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    I respect LA33 a lot but just because he "debunked" it doesn't mean I can't have a different opinion.
    Sorry, but it often doesn't sound like you are stating an opinion. It often sounds like you are saying the only way for us to become competitive is if we spend money on the PG position. Your response was:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    My argument Levine is PG is the most important position on the floor. You can't skimp there unless you have Jordan, Pippen, or Shaq, Kobe.

    We need to spend what is required to get a big time player there. Skimp somewhere else. We just paid Gorgui 16 million per year.
    I don't see "opinion" or "I feel.believe" anywhere in that quote. I see "we need" and "you can't". It really doesn't sound like you are voicing a difference in opinion; it feels like you are telling LEvine "he is wrong". That is why you keep getting responses from people who don't seem to get that you are stating opinions. It really doesn't read like you are to us.

  9. #49
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    No one is saying its bad to have a scoring PG. Its just kind of a weird take that its "the most important position on the floor".

    There isn't a "most important position" in basketball today or in the past. Whatever your best player's position is the "most important position" for your team.

    But I bet if you asked all 30 GMs what type of player they'd choose to build around, a 2-way wing would likely dominate the discussion.

    And it doesn't help that you always bring up Chris Paul as a comparison. I've yet to see a reasonable alternative offered by you. Rubio is far and away the best PG on our team, so his replacement is not in house. We're not getting a Hall of Fame PG for him. So who is your example of a guy who may be available, that you'd consider an upgrade and wouldn't break the bank (again, unless you're willing to give up Zach or Drew for a PG upgrade)?

  10. #50
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    Let me also add, I think its OK to want to upgrade from Rubio. Outside of KAT, I'm listening to offers for anyone on the team.

    It just strikes me as really strange that some people see Rubio as the biggest problem with this team.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEvine View Post
    Here's my problem with "upgrading" from Rubio.

    To get a clearly better player, its going to cost more. Hell, to get a comparable player, its likely going to cost more, as Ricky is on a very favorable deal.

    So is getting an upgrade to Ricky worth losing Zach or Drew? Or losing a prime free agent?
    That's my same beef. We keep talking about moving him for a backup pg. He's better than a backup pg. We don't need cap space and no one's lining up to give us three number ones for him, so what exactly does moving him accomplish? If you need to give Dunn more development time, let him start. Let Ricky roll with the backups. We're not going to find a better backup anywhere for the relative cheap contract he's on. I wouldn't move Ricky at all right now. Granted, we don't know if him and his agent want out, but he is under contract. I just don't see how we could possibly move Rubio and end up a better team.

  12. #52
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    I just wish the rest of his teammates were as good at their positions as Rubio is at his

  13. #53
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    Love the guy but I have to admit I was having a hard time figuring out what was going on with him most of the year. He wasn't playing well for the first month, and it seemed like Thibs didn't care for his style. Then for awhile it seemed like maybe a Dunn-Tyus rotation could be workable (for a developmental year, not if you're trying to make the playoffs.) But over the last month or so, suddenly Thibs has Ricky running the show again, and he's playing great-and even scoring!

    Now I'm wondering if he's the long-term PG again, which is what I've hoped all along. He's such a pleasure to watch operate on both ends.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlouiswolf View Post
    Love the guy but I have to admit I was having a hard time figuring out what was going on with him most of the year. He wasn't playing well for the first month, and it seemed like Thibs didn't care for his style. Then for awhile it seemed like maybe a Dunn-Tyus rotation could be workable (for a developmental year, not if you're trying to make the playoffs.) But over the last month or so, suddenly Thibs has Ricky running the show again, and he's playing great-and even scoring!

    Now I'm wondering if he's the long-term PG again, which is what I've hoped all along. He's such a pleasure to watch operate on both ends.
    Looking at how well he's shooting from 10 feet out to the 3pt line, and how his shot looks better (consistently more arc, a more repeatable motion, and more willingness to let it fly), maybe the new shooting coach is helping him?

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ Styles View Post
    Sorry, but it often doesn't sound like you are stating an opinion. It often sounds like you are saying the only way for us to become competitive is if we spend money on the PG position. Your response was:



    I don't see "opinion" or "I feel.believe" anywhere in that quote. I see "we need" and "you can't". It really doesn't sound like you are voicing a difference in opinion; it feels like you are telling LEvine "he is wrong". That is why you keep getting responses from people who don't seem to get that you are stating opinions. It really doesn't read like you are to us.
    Fair enough. I'll try to be aware of that. The default for me is it's always is my opinion. I don't pretend to be a basketball guru. They're are many here who know the game inside out way better than me. I'm just a die hard fan who has been watching the pro game since the mid seventies and love it. I do have my opinions though!

  16. #56
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    I definitely re-recommend that great column about him on Canis today. Worth a read.


 

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