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  1. #1
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    The battle of long 2-a-holics (Bulls/Wolves)

    Bulls 5th and Wolves 6th in percentage of shots as long 2's (16 ft to the 3 pt line).

    Let's play basketball and avoid the 3 pointer like it's 1999!
    Inching back towards the wagon...slowly...

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Country Club View Post
    Bulls 5th and Wolves 6th in percentage of shots as long 2's (16 ft to the 3 pt line).

    Let's play basketball and avoid the 3 pointer like it's 1999!
    It seems to be getting worse as the season wears on.

  3. #3
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    It's been reported that Butler, Wade and Mirotic are out today. If so, how do we find a way to lose this one? Wolves should take it 108-98.

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    Kingsxman has to be thrilled with Butler, Wade and Morotic out today.

  5. #5
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    good start so far
    Inching back towards the wagon...slowly...

  6. #6
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    welp, guess I can go watch some paint dry...hopefully they don't blow a 26 pt lead lol
    Inching back towards the wagon...slowly...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    Kingsxman has to be thrilled with Butler, Wade and Morotic out today.
    Ha. I wasnt at the game...but damn...I think the NBA needs to do something about this ****.

    Trust me...you want to see me go nuclear? I've got tix to the Cleveland game next week. Loves already out. If Lebron doesnt play...watch out.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingsxman View Post
    Ha. I wasnt at the game...but damn...I think the NBA needs to do something about this ****.

    Trust me...you want to see me go nuclear? I've got tix to the Cleveland game next week. Loves already out. If Lebron doesnt play...watch out.
    In some cases, I certainly sypathize about this. But do something about *what* in the Bulls case? Those guys are all injured.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA_33 View Post
    In some cases, I certainly sypathize about this. But do something about *what* in the Bulls case? Those guys are all injured.
    Bulls maybe are a bad example. But there was talk the other day about Cleveland "resting" all 3 of its stars against OKC. Didnt happen..but there was alot of talk about it.

    I've got tix for Tuesdays game against the Cavs. Love is already out. If Lebron were to "sit out" it would be a huge bummer. Since I'm a season ticket holder I usually pick 1 or 2 games each year to sell to help fund my season tickets. I usually will sell the Cleveland game as it pays for 1/4 to 1/3 of my seats. This year I decided to keep it as my oldest son has NEVER seen Lebron in person. You simply have to see him in person to appreciate how big and fast he is. I am hoping I dont regret that decision.

    Look, I get the concept of giving some players "rest". What would make sense is that if the teams do this it shoudl be done at home...not on the road where fans may only get 1 opportunity to see a player each year. Lebron usually only comes here once. I'm sure teams would jsut use "injury" as a way of getting around it..but it just seems like its best for the game and fans to keep the stars playing in the away games.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingsxman View Post
    Bulls maybe are a bad example. But there was talk the other day about Cleveland "resting" all 3 of its stars against OKC. Didnt happen..but there was alot of talk about it.

    I've got tix for Tuesdays game against the Cavs. Love is already out. If Lebron were to "sit out" it would be a huge bummer. Since I'm a season ticket holder I usually pick 1 or 2 games each year to sell to help fund my season tickets. I usually will sell the Cleveland game as it pays for 1/4 to 1/3 of my seats. This year I decided to keep it as my oldest son has NEVER seen Lebron in person. You simply have to see him in person to appreciate how big and fast he is. I am hoping I dont regret that decision.

    Look, I get the concept of giving some players "rest". What would make sense is that if the teams do this it shoudl be done at home...not on the road where fans may only get 1 opportunity to see a player each year. Lebron usually only comes here once. I'm sure teams would jsut use "injury" as a way of getting around it..but it just seems like its best for the game and fans to keep the stars playing in the away games.
    "What would make sense is that if the teams do this it shoudl be done at home...not on the road where fans may only get 1 opportunity to see a player each year."

    That hadn't occured to me but it's a great idea! I'll keep my fingers crossed he plays, especially for your son. I'll never forget the thrill I had seeing Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Dr. J, and Michael Jordan for the first time. It doesn't get any better than that.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingsxman View Post
    Bulls maybe are a bad example. But there was talk the other day about Cleveland "resting" all 3 of its stars against OKC. Didnt happen..but there was alot of talk about it.

    I've got tix for Tuesdays game against the Cavs. Love is already out. If Lebron were to "sit out" it would be a huge bummer. Since I'm a season ticket holder I usually pick 1 or 2 games each year to sell to help fund my season tickets. I usually will sell the Cleveland game as it pays for 1/4 to 1/3 of my seats. This year I decided to keep it as my oldest son has NEVER seen Lebron in person. You simply have to see him in person to appreciate how big and fast he is. I am hoping I dont regret that decision.

    Look, I get the concept of giving some players "rest". What would make sense is that if the teams do this it shoudl be done at home...not on the road where fans may only get 1 opportunity to see a player each year. Lebron usually only comes here once. I'm sure teams would jsut use "injury" as a way of getting around it..but it just seems like its best for the game and fans to keep the stars playing in the away games.
    As I said, when guys are actually being rested, I sympathize. In your theoretical LeBron situation, I'd agree with you.

    To a point, I also think that only "allowing" teams to rest healthy players at home might be a decent solution (the problem, of course, being that it's road trips are when teams play most of their heavily concentrated games, guys' sleep schedules are messed up, etc. and those are the specific things that players need rest *from* so sitting home games doesn't exactly solve the issue that exists).

    But Nick clearly referencing your issues with teams resting players in relation to a game when it didn't happen, and you responding, without either of you actually realizing (or maybe caring to check) that it didn't happen in this game, dilutes your argument.

    It's like the anti-tanking screeds that lump together every terrible NBA team under the assumption that they all must be losing on purpose, which obviously isn't true, making ALL tanking arguments less compelling (this season has been a good counter-example for that tendency, with a clear-cut worst team that's obviously NOT tanking, since they don't even hold their own draft pick; if they did have their pick, though, no one would believe that the Nets weren't this bad on purpose, though, because being bad is equated 1-to-1 with "tanking" by LOTS of NBA fans, even though that correlation is ridiculous).

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA_33 View Post
    As I said, when guys are actually being rested, I sympathize. In your theoretical LeBron situation, I'd agree with you.

    To a point, I also think that only "allowing" teams to rest healthy players at home might be a decent solution (the problem, of course, being that it's road trips are when teams play most of their heavily concentrated games, guys' sleep schedules are messed up, etc. and those are the specific things that players need rest *from* so sitting home games doesn't exactly solve the issue that exists).

    But Nick clearly referencing your issues with teams resting players in relation to a game when it didn't happen, and you responding, without either of you actually realizing (or maybe caring to check) that it didn't happen in this game, dilutes your argument.

    It's like the anti-tanking screeds that lump together every terrible NBA team under the assumption that they all must be losing on purpose, which obviously isn't true, making ALL tanking arguments less compelling (this season has been a good counter-example for that tendency, with a clear-cut worst team that's obviously NOT tanking, since they don't even hold their own draft pick; if they did have their pick, though, no one would believe that the Nets weren't this bad on purpose, though, because being bad is equated 1-to-1 with "tanking" by LOTS of NBA fans, even though that correlation is ridiculous).
    So if I was wrong on why the players from yesterdays game didnt play...how does it dilute my argument? I'm not specifically talking about yesterdays game but more in general an issue that is becoming more commonplace in the league. Re: yesterday...I didnt recall the specifics but I seem to remember someone being "sick"...and I remember thinking "resting" was what was going on. I probably was wrong but to me its got no bearing on my overall argument. BTW... I'm also assuming the Cavs all played because of blowback from fans/league. BUt it was clearly something that was being talked about because I heard it on Mike and Mike at some point that it was a "thing" that was potentially going to happen.

    I dont recall LA but do you actually go to the games? I dont remember if your local or not or if you go to games where you live. If so...great. If it doesnt bother you to pay money to see someone and they didnt show up then great. But to me, what I pay for season tix is a something that is not an insignificant part of my entertainment budget. I want to feel that my money is being used properly and that I'm getting a decent "value". Paying to see star players and not having them there is NOT good value IMHO.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA_33 View Post
    As I said, when guys are actually being rested, I sympathize. In your theoretical LeBron situation, I'd agree with you.

    To a point, I also think that only "allowing" teams to rest healthy players at home might be a decent solution (the problem, of course, being that it's road trips are when teams play most of their heavily concentrated games, guys' sleep schedules are messed up, etc. and those are the specific things that players need rest *from* so sitting home games doesn't exactly solve the issue that exists).

    But Nick clearly referencing your issues with teams resting players in relation to a game when it didn't happen, and you responding, without either of you actually realizing (or maybe caring to check) that it didn't happen in this game, dilutes your argument.

    It's like the anti-tanking screeds that lump together every terrible NBA team under the assumption that they all must be losing on purpose, which obviously isn't true, making ALL tanking arguments less compelling (this season has been a good counter-example for that tendency, with a clear-cut worst team that's obviously NOT tanking, since they don't even hold their own draft pick; if they did have their pick, though, no one would believe that the Nets weren't this bad on purpose, though, because being bad is equated 1-to-1 with "tanking" by LOTS of NBA fans, even though that correlation is ridiculous).
    Well, MIN screwed over the whole league for a long time by putting out a miserable product and performance. Teams like CLE lose a lot of money in their home game because they have to host a crappy team like the Kahn/Rambis era Timberwolves. I would not be surprised to hear they sold more tickets when CLE played in MIN than they sold in CLE. I know the revenue sharing kinda makes these differences level out, but from an operational POV it is a nightmare anyway: the other organizations have to work twice as hard to promote a game against a crappy team, the discounts are deeper, the incentives are richer... By "resting" their star players, they might be giving MIN a taste of their own medicine... This is a little like cutting your nose to spite your face, but it could be a point some owners (and Pop) try to make to the league regarding the blatant tanking taking place.

    OTOH, if teams look around trying to figure out which games they are more likely to win without their star players, MIN got to be at the top of everyone's list!
    Truth is not determined by how many believe it!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA_33 View Post
    As I said, when guys are actually being rested, I sympathize. In your theoretical LeBron situation, I'd agree with you.

    To a point, I also think that only "allowing" teams to rest healthy players at home might be a decent solution (the problem, of course, being that it's road trips are when teams play most of their heavily concentrated games, guys' sleep schedules are messed up, etc. and those are the specific things that players need rest *from* so sitting home games doesn't exactly solve the issue that exists).

    But Nick clearly referencing your issues with teams resting players in relation to a game when it didn't happen, and you responding, without either of you actually realizing (or maybe caring to check) that it didn't happen in this game, dilutes your argument.

    It's like the anti-tanking screeds that lump together every terrible NBA team under the assumption that they all must be losing on purpose, which obviously isn't true, making ALL tanking arguments less compelling (this season has been a good counter-example for that tendency, with a clear-cut worst team that's obviously NOT tanking, since they don't even hold their own draft pick; if they did have their pick, though, no one would believe that the Nets weren't this bad on purpose, though, because being bad is equated 1-to-1 with "tanking" by LOTS of NBA fans, even though that correlation is ridiculous).
    To be clear, I wasn't talking about injured players not playing. There isn't anything that can be done about that. Those are the breaks. I'm talking about resting for the sake of resting. I was talking about the idea in general. These guys are not traveling by bus or train either. They are coddled and travel in luxury. Perhaps the schedule makers can extend the season a week or two and eliminate all back to backs. I think a little more consideration for the road fan to see superstars is in order.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingsxman View Post
    So if I was wrong on why the players from yesterdays game didnt play...how does it dilute my argument? I'm not specifically talking about yesterdays game but more in general an issue that is becoming more commonplace in the league. Re: yesterday...I didnt recall the specifics but I seem to remember someone being "sick"...and I remember thinking "resting" was what was going on. I probably was wrong but to me its got no bearing on my overall argument. BTW... I'm also assuming the Cavs all played because of blowback from fans/league. BUt it was clearly something that was being talked about because I heard it on Mike and Mike at some point that it was a "thing" that was potentially going to happen.

    I dont recall LA but do you actually go to the games? I dont remember if your local or not or if you go to games where you live. If so...great. If it doesnt bother you to pay money to see someone and they didnt show up then great. But to me, what I pay for season tix is a something that is not an insignificant part of my entertainment budget. I want to feel that my money is being used properly and that I'm getting a decent "value". Paying to see star players and not having them there is NOT good value IMHO.
    I am local, and I do go to a few games, but I pick and chose games in part to avoid spots when I think it's more likely that key opposing players might be rested. But for a third time, I have sympathy for season ticket holders who are in the position you're in, and are paying full price for every game regardless of player availability.

    At the same time, though, I think it's a reality of the NBA schedule, and what teams have learned about rest, injuries, etc. that it's smart for teams to hold heavy-minutes players out occasionally, and I'm not sure that it's fair to the players for the league to impose hard and fast rules about when that can happen, when the league/owners are also the side that unilaterally sets the schedule. It's on the owners to fix this, IMO, and the owner/management of the teams each fanbase roots for that should bear the majority of blame for forcing the current "DNP-Rest" situation on their paying fans. The NBA position, in general, is that you are aboslutely NOT playing for any guarantee of seeing specific players (which of course your not, because in most cases if a guy isn't playing, it's because he's not healthy). If the Wolves, or any other team, market the games/tickets with the impressions that's the case, that's on them.

    But no matter what, stars ever being rested in road games you've paid to attend sucks for you, and I wish it didn't have to be this way.

    As for diluting the argument against the practice, though, yes, this conversation happening because of a game where players were not rested when healthy does dilute the argument, and if it happened too many times I'd probably become less sympathetic. Mirotic is dealing with back spasms, Wade injured his wrist in the previous game, and Butler did something to his heel a couple games ago. Those injuries are listed in the boxscore, and were all known prior to the game last night.

    Essentially, I agree with you that this is happening more than it ideally should, even giving the benefit of the doubt to the teams/players who feel they need to skip a game for rest occasionally. But that also means that there are enough actual examples where it happened, or was threatened like the Cavs at OKC last week, or even theoretical situations like you talking pre-emptively about being mad if LeBron misses the game on Tuesday (FWIW, I think you're probably safe, as the game is on NBATV, which teams know is a no-no for resting stars, and while the Cavs do play the next night, it's at home, so they'll presumably fly back to CLE right after the Wolves game, and those are their last two games before the break).

    So there's no need for Nick to bring up your "DNP-Rest" issues (which seemed pretty clearly what he was referencing, when he made the comment about the three Bulls guys being out) and for you to run with it, in a game when the only guys who were out were actually injured, especially without clarifying that this wasn't actually an example of the thing you were talking about, because it makes it sound like you guys don't care about the reasons, and were just indiscriminately complaining about guys missing games.

    I'm really not trying to pick a fight about this, though, so I'll let it go. Sorry to get everyone all riled up.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA_33 View Post
    I am local, and I do go to a few games, but I pick and chose games in part to avoid spots when I think it's more likely that key opposing players might be rested. But for a third time, I have sympathy for season ticket holders who are in the position you're in, and are paying full price for every game regardless of player availability.

    At the same time, though, I think it's a reality of the NBA schedule, and what teams have learned about rest, injuries, etc. that it's smart for teams to hold heavy-minutes players out occasionally, and I'm not sure that it's fair to the players for the league to impose hard and fast rules about when that can happen, when the league/owners are also the side that unilaterally sets the schedule. It's on the owners to fix this, IMO, and the owner/management of the teams each fanbase roots for that should bear the majority of blame for forcing the current "DNP-Rest" situation on their paying fans. The NBA position, in general, is that you are aboslutely NOT playing for any guarantee of seeing specific players (which of course your not, because in most cases if a guy isn't playing, it's because he's not healthy). If the Wolves, or any other team, market the games/tickets with the impressions that's the case, that's on them.

    But no matter what, stars ever being rested in road games you've paid to attend sucks for you, and I wish it didn't have to be this way.

    As for diluting the argument against the practice, though, yes, this conversation happening because of a game where players were not rested when healthy does dilute the argument, and if it happened too many times I'd probably become less sympathetic. Mirotic is dealing with back spasms, Wade injured his wrist in the previous game, and Butler did something to his heel a couple games ago. Those injuries are listed in the boxscore, and were all known prior to the game last night.

    Essentially, I agree with you that this is happening more than it ideally should, even giving the benefit of the doubt to the teams/players who feel they need to skip a game for rest occasionally. But that also means that there are enough actual examples where it happened, or was threatened like the Cavs at OKC last week, or even theoretical situations like you talking pre-emptively about being mad if LeBron misses the game on Tuesday (FWIW, I think you're probably safe, as the game is on NBATV, which teams know is a no-no for resting stars, and while the Cavs do play the next night, it's at home, so they'll presumably fly back to CLE right after the Wolves game, and those are their last two games before the break).

    So there's no need for Nick to bring up your "DNP-Rest" issues (which seemed pretty clearly what he was referencing, when he made the comment about the three Bulls guys being out) and for you to run with it, in a game when the only guys who were out were actually injured, especially without clarifying that this wasn't actually an example of the thing you were talking about, because it makes it sound like you guys don't care about the reasons, and were just indiscriminately complaining about guys missing games.

    I'm really not trying to pick a fight about this, though, so I'll let it go. Sorry to get everyone all riled up.
    All good. no worries. I think we're pretty much saying the same thing. And its good to know about the game tomorrow night being on NBA-TV as I wasn't aware of that. I agree that hopefully means there's no real chance of Lebron NOT playing. All on the day when I got my season tix renewal. Hey: they didn't go up too bad. Kudo's to the wolves for not screwing the fans on this.


 

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