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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Wolves are trying to keep Bazz

    IMO that would be a great addition for the minimum salary. He'd be a great trading chip at the deadline too. I'm sure he'll look even better the next year and gives us a great wing option of the bench. Especially, if he learns how to defend 4. I think it is his future position a stretch 4. He is very quick and strong. So if he learns to rebound and box out, he'd be pretty good.
    “We want to make plays to win basketball games, not to answer any questions or respond to what people have to say about us,” James


  2. #2
    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-...120437399.html


    Last season, Shabazz Muhammad gave the Timberwolves decent looking numbers overall — 9.9 points and 2.8 rebounds per game playing about 19 minutes a night, and he shot a career-best 34 percent from three — but a closer look at his game left questions. He’s improved but is still not a strong defender. He puts up numbers because he thinks shot first, second, and third, and rarely passes the ball. Minnesota clearly wasn’t sold on him as part of the long-term future.
    The Timberwolves renounced his rights this summer to clear the cap space to sign Taj Gibson. That seemed to spell the end of Muhammad in Minnesota….
    But maybe not reports Darren Wolfson of ESPN 1500 and Chanel 5 in Minneapolis.

    A year ago, in the free spending days of 2016, free agent Muhammad would have gotten a healthy contract near the league average ($8 million a year or so). This summer, the market has dried up, and Muhammad is still on the market.
    He likely doesn’t want to return to Minnesota on a minimum deal, but what other offers are on the table? There has been interest from Orlando and other teams, but at this point in the summer there is not a lot of money left, just some teams with exceptions remaining and the others offering minimum deals. What other options does the swing man have.
    He can afford to wait, the minimum deals will still be there closer to the start of training camps. But the wait for a much better offer may be fruitless.


  3. #3
    I could be ok with bringing Bazz back for the minimum. In fact, this experience may cause him to change agents and reevaluate himself, and what he needs to work on as a player. Defense and passing in particular.

    I think Bazz might be a good fit going small. Bazz has talent and a unique skill set. The minimum might be a bargain for us.

    I think he waits until September and signs for 2.5 or so.

    If we signed him to the minimum this year would we have any Bird rights to sign him the following year for more money?


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    225
    No way Bazz comes back here for the minimum and that's all we can offer.
    Pro athletes are too prideful and he would be better off going to a **** team on a one year deal that can give him the most minutes.
    Ribs n Whisky make my mind feel tight.


  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Lakeland, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    I could be ok with bringing Bazz back for the minimum. In fact, this experience may cause him to change agents and reevaluate himself, and what he needs to work on as a player. Defense and passing in particular.

    I think Bazz might be a good fit going small. Bazz has talent and a unique skill set. The minimum might be a bargain for us.

    I think he waits until September and signs for 2.5 or so.

    If we signed him to the minimum this year would we have any Bird rights to sign him the following year for more money?
    Unlikely, but early Bird Rights would start in a year I think.
    “We want to make plays to win basketball games, not to answer any questions or respond to what people have to say about us,” James


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
    IMO that would be a great addition for the minimum salary. He'd be a great trading chip at the deadline too. I'm sure he'll look even better the next year and gives us a great wing option of the bench. Especially, if he learns how to defend 4. I think it is his future position a stretch 4. He is very quick and strong. So if he learns to rebound and box out, he'd be pretty good.
    I think it would be great if he came back. I've never hated a draft pick more than when we took him. But I've done a complete 180 on the guy. He's worked hard on his game, he's been a good guy on the team (as far as I can tell) and he has some real talents. Sure he has some weaknesses too, but what player that we can get at this point, on a minimum contract, isn't going to have weaknesses? If we find a player at this point that contributes anything on a regular basis it will be an accomplishment. Instant offense off the bench is an asset, and maybe he can learn from Crawford too. He seems like a guy Bazz should aspire to be.


  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    I could be ok with bringing Bazz back for the minimum. In fact, this experience may cause him to change agents and reevaluate himself, and what he needs to work on as a player. Defense and passing in particular.

    I think Bazz might be a good fit going small. Bazz has talent and a unique skill set. The minimum might be a bargain for us.

    I think he waits until September and signs for 2.5 or so.

    If we signed him to the minimum this year would we have any Bird rights to sign him the following year for more money?
    Not really. We could sign him to 120% of his previous contract (or 120% of the minimum, whichever is greater) as a "non-bird exception".

    "Early Bird" requires 2 years on the same team, "full Bird" 3 years. And its unlikely he'd sign anywhere for more than 1 year if he takes the minimum.


  8. #8
    I'd look at Dante Cunningham before Bazz and Tony Allen before both (if all would accept the minimum). Cunningham is a better defender and developed a 3 pt shot last year. Bazz scores and that's it and does so inefficiently. We've got Crawford for that. I'd like to see Thibs stagger Butler and Wiggins more so that Wiggins one of those guys is the main scorer with the second unit. Along with Crawford, we should have enough bench scoring. Cunningham would provide complementary floor spacing and Allen's D would be welcome.

    I'd take Bazz as a later option if we can't land better guys, but would hope he wouldn't play much. He'd be an injury replacement guy who could fill minutes if there's a significant injury.


  9. #9
    Scary that (at least according to Doogie), Bazz turned down a 10M+/year deal with us last year around the time we did Dieng's deal.


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by LEvine View Post
    Scary that (at least according to Doogie), Bazz turned down a 10M+/year deal with us last year around the time we did Dieng's deal.
    Isn't that something? I'd be looking for a new agent and taking a cold look at myself as a player.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    2,031
    Quote Originally Posted by LEvine View Post
    Scary that (at least according to Doogie), Bazz turned down a 10M+/year deal with us last year around the time we did Dieng's deal.
    I hope that's innacurate...if not thank god he turned it down.


  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEvine View Post
    Scary that (at least according to Doogie), Bazz turned down a 10M+/year deal with us last year around the time we did Dieng's deal.
    Not sure if I believe that was ever a firm offer. I'd probably stay away from Bazz in favor of better defensive wings. Plus I'd be worried that he'd carry a bad attitude if he settled for a minimum contract, although that's what he deserves.


  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by stlouiswolf View Post
    Not sure if I believe that was ever a firm offer. I'd probably stay away from Bazz in favor of better defensive wings. Plus I'd be worried that he'd carry a bad attitude if he settled for a minimum contract, although that's what he deserves.
    I feel like one trait he brings is being a consummate professional. Every time he gets interviewed he says the right thing and appears to have a good work ethic. Maybe he just needs that same veteran leadership Wiggins needs to take the next step.


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by stlouiswolf View Post
    Not sure if I believe that was ever a firm offer. I'd probably stay away from Bazz in favor of better defensive wings. Plus I'd be worried that he'd carry a bad attitude if he settled for a minimum contract, although that's what he deserves.
    Even if it wasn't "firm", if we were negotiating with him, we had to be offering a lot more than the minimum.


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Arizona
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEvine View Post
    Scary that (at least according to Doogie), Bazz turned down a 10M+/year deal with us last year around the time we did Dieng's deal.
    I am curious if that was Thibs trying to get ShaMu locked up to move him. We had a number of inquiries when Flip was coaching them, so maybe he was thinking if he could sign him to a good deal (and $10 million a year was pretty much bench money last off season) he could flip him for something of value. It would have likely bit us if he didn't get a deal done before the deadline last season, but that could have been the reasoning. Granted, it could have just as easily been that Thibs had thought of ShaMu as a piece of the core last off season, too. Who knows.


  16. #16
    Bazz is interesting to me on this roster. I think he can play a small ball 4 role in certain lineups with his game and wingspan. He will never be a passer but may become an average defender. I think the pick will always bug me as there was a healthy contingent on this board that was screaming for McCollum and Giannis was my swing for the fence pick if we were going to do it but Bazz is at least an NBA player. That's about the best compliment I can say because I'm not sure he's a role player on a good team. But on this roster, he's wing depth and an interesting fit. If you can't get Tony Allen, he's as good of an option as any.

    I don't bring this up to be mean spirited but I think there might be some truth to it. Britt and Brau talked in some detail during the season about Bazz's tendencies as a person. There were some stories I think going back to his high school days of him having some OCD type tendencies or possibly a mild tourettes type signs. He has basically trained himself to not let those things affect him to as great of a degree as a human can and he refuses to speak about the subject. I think it's a personal pride/shame thing most likely and I'm probably drawing too much of a conclusion but it does seem when he gets going on something he isn't a multi-tasker on the court. He sees one thing, commits fully to it, and has a tough time switching to something else. I think he's an NBA player, and I think that focus could help him on defense, I'm just not sure he'll ever be a guy who will be a multi-faceted offensive threat because of how he approaches the game. It might not be something he can train himself out of due to how he has displayed himself personally. I hope that comes across as a compliment in some way.


  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by LEvine View Post
    Not really. We could sign him to 120% of his previous contract (or 120% of the minimum, whichever is greater) as a "non-bird exception".

    "Early Bird" requires 2 years on the same team, "full Bird" 3 years. And its unlikely he'd sign anywhere for more than 1 year if he takes the minimum.
    I'm totally wrong about this. Renouncing him just keeps us from using Bird rights to resign him this year. But next year he'd still be 3+ consecutive years with us, so we'd actually regain his full Bird rights:

    39. What does renouncing a player mean?

    As detailed in question number 36, free agents continue to be included in team salary. By renouncing a player, a team gives up its right to use the Larry Bird, Early Bird, or Non-Bird exception (see question number 25) to re-sign that player. A renounced player no longer counts toward team salary, so teams use renouncement to gain additional cap room. Teams are still permitted to re-sign renounced players, but only with cap room or an exception other than the Bird exception1. The exception to this rule is that an Early Bird free agent, at the team's option, can be renounced to the Non-Bird level. A team might do this in order to sign the player to a one-year contract, instead of the minimum two years required by the Early Bird exception.

    If the player does not sign with any team (his prior team or any other team) for the entire season, then his renouncement continues. In other words, the team is not permitted to renounce a player, let him sit idle for the year, and then re-sign him the following summer using Bird rights. However, if the player is renounced and then re-signs with his prior team, his renouncement is no longer in effect when his contract ends. For example, if a team renounces their Larry Bird rights to a player, then re-signs that player to a one-year contract using cap room, the player will be a Larry Bird free agent once again the following summer.


    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q39


  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by LEvine View Post
    I'm totally wrong about this. Renouncing him just keeps us from using Bird rights to resign him this year. But next year he'd still be 3+ consecutive years with us, so we'd actually regain his full Bird rights:

    39. What does renouncing a player mean?

    As detailed in question number 36, free agents continue to be included in team salary. By renouncing a player, a team gives up its right to use the Larry Bird, Early Bird, or Non-Bird exception (see question number 25) to re-sign that player. A renounced player no longer counts toward team salary, so teams use renouncement to gain additional cap room. Teams are still permitted to re-sign renounced players, but only with cap room or an exception other than the Bird exception1. The exception to this rule is that an Early Bird free agent, at the team's option, can be renounced to the Non-Bird level. A team might do this in order to sign the player to a one-year contract, instead of the minimum two years required by the Early Bird exception.

    If the player does not sign with any team (his prior team or any other team) for the entire season, then his renouncement continues. In other words, the team is not permitted to renounce a player, let him sit idle for the year, and then re-sign him the following summer using Bird rights. However, if the player is renounced and then re-signs with his prior team, his renouncement is no longer in effect when his contract ends. For example, if a team renounces their Larry Bird rights to a player, then re-signs that player to a one-year contract using cap room, the player will be a Larry Bird free agent once again the following summer.


    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q39
    Thanks Levine for making that clear. I think Bazz qualifies to get the 4 year veteran minimum of around 1.5 ml.


  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Cory View Post
    Bazz is interesting to me on this roster. I think he can play a small ball 4 role in certain lineups with his game and wingspan. He will never be a passer but may become an average defender. I think the pick will always bug me as there was a healthy contingent on this board that was screaming for McCollum and Giannis was my swing for the fence pick if we were going to do it but Bazz is at least an NBA player. That's about the best compliment I can say because I'm not sure he's a role player on a good team. But on this roster, he's wing depth and an interesting fit. If you can't get Tony Allen, he's as good of an option as any.

    I don't bring this up to be mean spirited but I think there might be some truth to it. Britt and Brau talked in some detail during the season about Bazz's tendencies as a person. There were some stories I think going back to his high school days of him having some OCD type tendencies or possibly a mild tourettes type signs. He has basically trained himself to not let those things affect him to as great of a degree as a human can and he refuses to speak about the subject. I think it's a personal pride/shame thing most likely and I'm probably drawing too much of a conclusion but it does seem when he gets going on something he isn't a multi-tasker on the court. He sees one thing, commits fully to it, and has a tough time switching to something else. I think he's an NBA player, and I think that focus could help him on defense, I'm just not sure he'll ever be a guy who will be a multi-faceted offensive threat because of how he approaches the game. It might not be something he can train himself out of due to how he has displayed himself personally. I hope that comes across as a compliment in some way.
    I think he is single minded and thats his issue. Whether or not its related to his Tourettes is anyones guess. I will always root for Bazzy as a player now that I know him because i think he tries really hard and has the deck stacked against him because of his Tourettes. I hope he succeeds somewhere.


  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by LEvine View Post
    I'm totally wrong about this. Renouncing him just keeps us from using Bird rights to resign him this year. But next year he'd still be 3+ consecutive years with us, so we'd actually regain his full Bird rights:

    39. What does renouncing a player mean?

    As detailed in question number 36, free agents continue to be included in team salary. By renouncing a player, a team gives up its right to use the Larry Bird, Early Bird, or Non-Bird exception (see question number 25) to re-sign that player. A renounced player no longer counts toward team salary, so teams use renouncement to gain additional cap room. Teams are still permitted to re-sign renounced players, but only with cap room or an exception other than the Bird exception1. The exception to this rule is that an Early Bird free agent, at the team's option, can be renounced to the Non-Bird level. A team might do this in order to sign the player to a one-year contract, instead of the minimum two years required by the Early Bird exception.

    If the player does not sign with any team (his prior team or any other team) for the entire season, then his renouncement continues. In other words, the team is not permitted to renounce a player, let him sit idle for the year, and then re-sign him the following summer using Bird rights. However, if the player is renounced and then re-signs with his prior team, his renouncement is no longer in effect when his contract ends. For example, if a team renounces their Larry Bird rights to a player, then re-signs that player to a one-year contract using cap room, the player will be a Larry Bird free agent once again the following summer.


    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q39
    I think this is our biggest chip and hopefully he sees it that way as well. The market does not look better next summer and I'd hesitate to commit big money to him but next summer, a 2 year $10 million extension with a player option may look good considering how this summer has played out. That's probably all I give him though.



 

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