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  1. #1
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    Fletcher is out.

    In the first move of the off-season as a result of playoff futility, Fletcher is no longer with the Wild.
    With a new GM there is likely to be a new coach being hired I would think.


  2. #2
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    I don't think the coach is the issue.

    They have tons of money tied up in a defenseman who doesn't score (Suter) a first line guy like Parise who does score and is a very solid player but is waning in endurance and overpaying for a Captain who doesn't score worth a nickel.

    To bad nobody will take Suter and we lost alot of youth and Vegas is laughing at us. They should have exposed Suter, Parise and Koivu for that and kept our youth.
    Publicity, fame and accolades can make a theory popular. They can't make it true.


  3. #3
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    Players playing timid is coaching.
    Fletcher took a swing and it didn't work.
    It was other short term deals that mortgaged moving forward that hurt the team.
    And coaching is an issue, he is a veteran coach and for several years his team appears unaware of how to play in the playoffs.


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoneCrusher View Post
    I don't think the coach is the issue.

    They have tons of money tied up in a defenseman who doesn't score (Suter) a first line guy like Parise who does score and is a very solid player but is waning in endurance and overpaying for a Captain who doesn't score worth a nickel.

    To bad nobody will take Suter and we lost alot of youth and Vegas is laughing at us. They should have exposed Suter, Parise and Koivu for that and kept our youth.
    Someone would absolutely "take" Suter. He is still a really good player. But he, like so many others on this team, has a no trade clause in his contract. Fletcher gave out no trades to anyone who asked (Pommenville, Koivu, Suter, Parise, Dubnyk) and that is a huge reason we are stuck in the situation we're in, and a big reason why he was let go, IMO.

    He gave up way too many draft picks to acquire Martin Hanzell. That trade was a killer.

    He gave up two 2nd round picks for Matt Moulson who couldn't play. He then resigned with the Sabres who then cut him. TWO second round picks.

    He completely screwed up yet another trade with the Sabres (that was an annual event) by giving away Scandella, our only defenseman with the size and toughness to be a playoff factor, for a guy who is like a hundred minor league tough guys and a tiny forward who doesn't score (or even get activated for playoff games) - all just to rid himself of one of those no trade deals (Pommenville).

    This year at the deadline he gave away Reilly for a worthless 5th round draft pick, and Lucia and Bertschy for some guy named Loov.

    I agree with you that he screwed up the expansion draft. We were going to lose Haula either way. He was demanding a deal that was way beyond what we were willing to pay, but it was also way beyond what we could have paid even if we wanted too. We didn't have the cap space to even come close to keeping him. But the mistake was giving up on Tuch so soon, just to get them to take Haula instead of one of our defensemen. Fletcher got worked on that deal, and it looks bad because two of our guys are doing so well there.

    Bottom line is he did not make good decisions and we have a team that isn't built for playoff success and we are now stuck because of our cap situation. The guy that replaces him better be a genius because I don't see how we get much better.


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by StretchArmstrong View Post
    In the first move of the off-season as a result of playoff futility, Fletcher is no longer with the Wild.
    With a new GM there is likely to be a new coach being hired I would think.
    The Owner said that if a candidate wants to blow it up and rebuild then he won't be hired. He still thinks the team can be improved enough to win a cup (I think he's nuts). He also said the coach and his staff have to stay.

    It seems like it will be tough to get a great GM to take the job when the owner ties his hands like that. He fires an established GM, who's team made the playoffs 6 years in a row, and then tells the new guy he can't change things. Strange.

    Don't get me wrong, I think dumping Fletcher was the right move. But if that's your decision then you can't tell the replacement to keep doing the same things.


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECA19 View Post
    Someone would absolutely "take" Suter. He is still a really good player. But he, like so many others on this team, has a no trade clause in his contract. Fletcher gave out no trades to anyone who asked (Pommenville, Koivu, Suter, Parise, Dubnyk) and that is a huge reason we are stuck in the situation we're in, and a big reason why he was let go, IMO.

    He gave up way too many draft picks to acquire Martin Hanzell. That trade was a killer.

    He gave up two 2nd round picks for Matt Moulson who couldn't play. He then resigned with the Sabres who then cut him. TWO second round picks.

    He completely screwed up yet another trade with the Sabres (that was an annual event) by giving away Scandella, our only defenseman with the size and toughness to be a playoff factor, for a guy who is like a hundred minor league tough guys and a tiny forward who doesn't score (or even get activated for playoff games) - all just to rid himself of one of those no trade deals (Pommenville).

    This year at the deadline he gave away Reilly for a worthless 5th round draft pick, and Lucia and Bertschy for some guy named Loov.

    I agree with you that he screwed up the expansion draft. We were going to lose Haula either way. He was demanding a deal that was way beyond what we were willing to pay, but it was also way beyond what we could have paid even if we wanted too. We didn't have the cap space to even come close to keeping him. But the mistake was giving up on Tuch so soon, just to get them to take Haula instead of one of our defensemen. Fletcher got worked on that deal, and it looks bad because two of our guys are doing so well there.

    Bottom line is he did not make good decisions and we have a team that isn't built for playoff success and we are now stuck because of our cap situation. The guy that replaces him better be a genius because I don't see how we get much better.
    Suter is a one trick pony. Solid player (iron man) but doesn't score at all. Those are a dime a dozen and for 1/2 the costs.

    I do think Suter will bail because he wants a Stanley Cup. Parise has one already. Koivu can be traded. The big two that need to leave are Suter and Koivu.
    Publicity, fame and accolades can make a theory popular. They can't make it true.


  7. #7
    Isn’t Suter locked in for 7 years?
    It doesn’t matter if you are a king or street sweeper pretty soon you will dance with the reaper!

    Its better to be silent and everyone think your an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    “Statistics are no substitute for judgment”
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoneCrusher View Post
    Suter is a one trick pony. Solid player (iron man) but doesn't score at all. Those are a dime a dozen and for 1/2 the costs.

    I do think Suter will bail because he wants a Stanley Cup. Parise has one already. Koivu can be traded. The big two that need to leave are Suter and Koivu.
    I wasn't aware Koivu gave up the no-trade clause. It was definitely in his most recent deal but the only things I've found online indicate he has a full no-move clause in this new deal:
    koivu ext.jpg
    Fletcher gave those away all the time and they hurt. Even if Russo is wrong (unlikely) I can't imagine us trading him unless things got really ugly. Plus it's only 2 years, but still.

    I don't agree that Suter is a dime a dozen guy. He isn't a high scoring superstar, but he is really good. He's very strong defensively and he's decent offensively. Not Brent Burns, but not terrible. I'd be shocked if he asked for a trade. Part of my problem with him is that he doesn't seem like winning a cup is the highest priority. He seems like a guy that's just happy to play on a good team then go home and live the good life. If he did agree to waive his no trade, and demand a trade, I'd be happy to let him go since we have a ton of money tied up in him, and his least productive years are ahead of him (and maybe sooner than later given the recent injury).


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf on the Prowl View Post
    Isn’t Suter locked in for 7 years?
    Don't worry, he's signed up through the 2024-25 season. Parise too.


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf on the Prowl View Post
    Isn’t Suter locked in for 7 years?
    Unfortunately yes. I believe both Suter and Parise signed 10 year contracts.
    Publicity, fame and accolades can make a theory popular. They can't make it true.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECA19 View Post
    I wasn't aware Koivu gave up the no-trade clause. It was definitely in his most recent deal but the only things I've found online indicate he has a full no-move clause in this new deal:
    koivu ext.jpg
    Fletcher gave those away all the time and they hurt. Even if Russo is wrong (unlikely) I can't imagine us trading him unless things got really ugly. Plus it's only 2 years, but still.

    I don't agree that Suter is a dime a dozen guy. He isn't a high scoring superstar, but he is really good. He's very strong defensively and he's decent offensively. Not Brent Burns, but not terrible. I'd be shocked if he asked for a trade. Part of my problem with him is that he doesn't seem like winning a cup is the highest priority. He seems like a guy that's just happy to play on a good team then go home and live the good life. If he did agree to waive his no trade, and demand a trade, I'd be happy to let him go since we have a ton of money tied up in him, and his least productive years are ahead of him (and maybe sooner than later given the recent injury).
    Suter is an iron man. Plays the game and does defense really well but he's a lunch pail guy and we tied up a ton of money for which we probably couldn't paid him 1/2 that and he would have signed. He should have been that player left open for the expansion draft. I do like him in the future as a coach but as a player not alot there to desire. It also goes back to our defense being way undersized. They aren't going to win unless they get a player that can out muscle the the thugs on the Avalanche and the Jets.

    As for Koivu I wasn't intending to say that he gave up his clause, just that if given the opportunity to play for a championship team he would waive that. Maybe we can sucker Buffalo into trading for him.

    The last thing which is most important is they need to either get rid of Koivu or Parise. They is a conflict in the locker room between the two and its about playing style. Koivu and Granlund want to play more of the Finland style of play while Parise and Suter more the Canadian/US style. It's causing issues. (Nate Prosser is a very good friend of a co-worker and they talk about 2 times a week).
    Publicity, fame and accolades can make a theory popular. They can't make it true.


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoneCrusher View Post
    Unfortunately yes. I believe both Suter and Parise signed 10 year contracts.
    Ummm, they were identical 13 year deals. $98 mil.


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoneCrusher View Post
    Suter is an iron man. Plays the game and does defense really well but he's a lunch pail guy and we tied up a ton of money for which we probably couldn't paid him 1/2 that and he would have signed. He should have been that player left open for the expansion draft. I do like him in the future as a coach but as a player not alot there to desire. It also goes back to our defense being way undersized. They aren't going to win unless they get a player that can out muscle the the thugs on the Avalanche and the Jets.

    As for Koivu I wasn't intending to say that he gave up his clause, just that if given the opportunity to play for a championship team he would waive that. Maybe we can sucker Buffalo into trading for him.

    The last thing which is most important is they need to either get rid of Koivu or Parise. They is a conflict in the locker room between the two and its about playing style. Koivu and Granlund want to play more of the Finland style of play while Parise and Suter more the Canadian/US style. It's causing issues. (Nate Prosser is a very good friend of a co-worker and they talk about 2 times a week).
    He is an iron man who plays excellent defense, and does a lot of things that don't get noticed. But no chance he'd have signed for 1/2 his deal. He was highly desired that year and may have actually taken a little less to come here, supposedly because his wife wanted to be close to home and so did he.

    We couldn't have left him (or Parise, Koivu, Pommenville or Dubnyk) open for the expansion draft. Players on a no trade deal were not eligible. That's another reason why I said those deals were a big reason Fletcher was dumped. It was terrible roster management and terrible contract negotiating.

    I 100% agree with you about our D being undersized. His size isn't the issue, and he's strong as an ox. Watch how easily he moves guys off the puck, or shields them off along the boards and controls the puck. They are subtle things, and he's really strong. But, he is in no way an intimidator and doesn't scare people away from the front of the net. But, as a player, he's not our problem. He is surrounded on D by tiny, offensive-minded guys (Spurgeon, Dumba), super inexperienced guys (Soucy, Seeler), powder puffs who wouldn't hurt a flea (Olofsson, Brodin) or run of the mill guys who should be a 7th or 8th defenseman on a good team (Murphy, Prosser). I mean, I like Prosser a lot and he tries hard, but the guy was cut by St. Louis. We pick him up during the season and suddenly he's one of our most reliable defensemen. That is a real problem.

    As for the roster and the style of play, I agree that there seems to be an issue. Suter and Parise brought in an outside coach, while Yeo was still the coach, to teach them a different power play system. They did it on their own, not with Yeo's blessing, and you absolutely can't do that. We need a hard-a** leader on this team and then build around him with guys that are tough and big (not talking about goons either). A guy like Kessler, or Messier back in the day. Mentally tough and super competitive. That's what wins in the playoffs. Parise is a good complementary player but he's not a Kirby Puckett "get on my back boys" guy, and Koivu isn't even close.

    The owner thinks this is a "tweak" job for the new GM. I think it's a lot more like a tear it down and rebuild job. Problem is Fletcher screwed us with his terrible roster management/contracts, so it's darn near impossible to rebuild. The only guys we can trade are the ones you'd want to keep.


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECA19 View Post
    He is an iron man who plays excellent defense, and does a lot of things that don't get noticed. But no chance he'd have signed for 1/2 his deal. He was highly desired that year and may have actually taken a little less to come here, supposedly because his wife wanted to be close to home and so did he.

    We couldn't have left him (or Parise, Koivu, Pommenville or Dubnyk) open for the expansion draft. Players on a no trade deal were not eligible. That's another reason why I said those deals were a big reason Fletcher was dumped. It was terrible roster management and terrible contract negotiating.

    I 100% agree with you about our D being undersized. His size isn't the issue, and he's strong as an ox. Watch how easily he moves guys off the puck, or shields them off along the boards and controls the puck. They are subtle things, and he's really strong. But, he is in no way an intimidator and doesn't scare people away from the front of the net. But, as a player, he's not our problem. He is surrounded on D by tiny, offensive-minded guys (Spurgeon, Dumba), super inexperienced guys (Soucy, Seeler), powder puffs who wouldn't hurt a flea (Olofsson, Brodin) or run of the mill guys who should be a 7th or 8th defenseman on a good team (Murphy, Prosser). I mean, I like Prosser a lot and he tries hard, but the guy was cut by St. Louis. We pick him up during the season and suddenly he's one of our most reliable defensemen. That is a real problem.

    As for the roster and the style of play, I agree that there seems to be an issue. Suter and Parise brought in an outside coach, while Yeo was still the coach, to teach them a different power play system. They did it on their own, not with Yeo's blessing, and you absolutely can't do that. We need a hard-a** leader on this team and then build around him with guys that are tough and big (not talking about goons either). A guy like Kessler, or Messier back in the day. Mentally tough and super competitive. That's what wins in the playoffs. Parise is a good complementary player but he's not a Kirby Puckett "get on my back boys" guy, and Koivu isn't even close.

    The owner thinks this is a "tweak" job for the new GM. I think it's a lot more like a tear it down and rebuild job. Problem is Fletcher screwed us with his terrible roster management/contracts, so it's darn near impossible to rebuild. The only guys we can trade are the ones you'd want to keep.
    Not going to disagree with alot of what you said but Suter has taught alot of the defense men the skill and that's just wisdom. But still he may be strong but we need that enforcer and he's the exact opposite. Someone mentioned Dumba in a different forum and he's not ideal but he scores and at a much better pace than Suter and his +/- is going to be about the same as Suter. Just saying we could have spent our money better.
    Publicity, fame and accolades can make a theory popular. They can't make it true.


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoneCrusher View Post
    Not going to disagree with alot of what you said but Suter has taught alot of the defense men the skill and that's just wisdom. But still he may be strong but we need that enforcer and he's the exact opposite. Someone mentioned Dumba in a different forum and he's not ideal but he scores and at a much better pace than Suter and his +/- is going to be about the same as Suter. Just saying we could have spent our money better.
    No real argument here about how we've spent our money. That's what I've been saying. Fletcher has done a bad job spending the money. And I completely agree that we need some big, mean, nasty defensemen. Suter - the player - is still a good player and we are better with him on the ice, even if he isn't the enforcer we both wish he was. His contract, on the other hand, is a killer.

    I'm a Dumba fan, and spend most of the season defending him to friends who get frustrated when he makes a boneheaded play. My comeback is, yea but he scored 50 points this year. Brodin screws up too and nobody ever says a word. And he only gets 20 points.

    I certainly don't know what goes on behind the scenes as far as Suter imparting wisdom on the other defensemen. He seems to get credit for mentoring a guy like Brodin, but I don't know how much of that is true. If there was a way to trade Suter today I'd be all for it. Because he has a lot of years left on his deal and I don't see him getting better. That ankle injury is a bad one, and he has a ton of miles on his body. But I would be absolutely shocked if he agreed to waive his no trade.

    **EDIT** BTW, I appreciate that there is someone else on the board that wants to talk hockey. I've been a hoops guy most of my life, but played hockey (poorly) growing up and have two daughters that decided they like hockey better. So I've spent the last 10+ years in rinks around the country, watching and talking hockey. My youngest daughter will be a freshman at UMD next year, playing for the Bulldogs. Can't wait for that!


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECA19 View Post
    No real argument here about how we've spent our money. That's what I've been saying. Fletcher has done a bad job spending the money. And I completely agree that we need some big, mean, nasty defensemen. Suter - the player - is still a good player and we are better with him on the ice, even if he isn't the enforcer we both wish he was. His contract, on the other hand, is a killer.

    I'm a Dumba fan, and spend most of the season defending him to friends who get frustrated when he makes a boneheaded play. My comeback is, yea but he scored 50 points this year. Brodin screws up too and nobody ever says a word. And he only gets 20 points.

    I certainly don't know what goes on behind the scenes as far as Suter imparting wisdom on the other defensemen. He seems to get credit for mentoring a guy like Brodin, but I don't know how much of that is true. If there was a way to trade Suter today I'd be all for it. Because he has a lot of years left on his deal and I don't see him getting better. That ankle injury is a bad one, and he has a ton of miles on his body. But I would be absolutely shocked if he agreed to waive his no trade.

    **EDIT** BTW, I appreciate that there is someone else on the board that wants to talk hockey. I've been a hoops guy most of my life, but played hockey (poorly) growing up and have two daughters that decided they like hockey better. So I've spent the last 10+ years in rinks around the country, watching and talking hockey. My youngest daughter will be a freshman at UMD next year, playing for the Bulldogs. Can't wait for that!
    Same here with the hockey. Played when I was in Mites, Peewee's but all the other boys sprouted at Bantam (12-14) and I didn't so Mom basically said no. I was going to break something. Tons of fun playing hockey and I got my 5 yr old on the ice in MG during one of the open rink times. Super crappy skates that I got (dull) but it was fun to get back and skate around. 5 year old liked it and was able to move around but didn't have that concept of "push" off with the skate. I need to get him back.

    Back to the Wild. I was really upset when we lost Scandella. I loved the Prosser/Scandella d line and really wish we had it back. Haula was a loss as well. Hell the Wild contributed so much to making Vegas the team they are now with Haula and Tuch. Then to trade Scandella after he was worried about the expansion draft is stupid.

    Next year is going to be interesting with some of the youngsters mixed in with the vets and we won't start the season missing Parise.

    Your daughter should win a championship or two skating for UMD. Are you from the range?
    Publicity, fame and accolades can make a theory popular. They can't make it true.


  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoneCrusher View Post
    Same here with the hockey. Played when I was in Mites, Peewee's but all the other boys sprouted at Bantam (12-14) and I didn't so Mom basically said no. I was going to break something. Tons of fun playing hockey and I got my 5 yr old on the ice in MG during one of the open rink times. Super crappy skates that I got (dull) but it was fun to get back and skate around. 5 year old liked it and was able to move around but didn't have that concept of "push" off with the skate. I need to get him back.

    Back to the Wild. I was really upset when we lost Scandella. I loved the Prosser/Scandella d line and really wish we had it back. Haula was a loss as well. Hell the Wild contributed so much to making Vegas the team they are now with Haula and Tuch. Then to trade Scandella after he was worried about the expansion draft is stupid.

    Next year is going to be interesting with some of the youngsters mixed in with the vets and we won't start the season missing Parise.

    Your daughter should win a championship or two skating for UMD. Are you from the range?
    I'm not from the range. She just like UMD the best. It was the best team and it's a good school in a nice city. I think they may be the best team in the conference next year and compete for a national title. She's one of 4 high level forwards coming in, plus a couple excellent defensemen. Oh, and the goalie that just led Team USA to the gold medal will be returning for 2 more years. So the future looks bright.

    As for me, I grew up in Robbinsdale, playing on outdoor ice and I was terrible. Quit around 13 yrs old. Loved hoops, married a good college basketball player and we had 2 hockey players. Go figure. Now I've got my own skate sharpener in the garage and it'll be collecting dust. But it's been a fun ride. Hope your kid sticks with it!

    I agree that it'll be very interesting to see what the new GM is able to pull off. I wish that Russian kid was coming over. He could be a difference maker, but he's at least a couple years away - and maybe more.

    As for Haula, he was gone anyway. I'm friends with a high level Wild front office guy and he told me Haula insisted on WAY more than they could pay him under the cap. They tried to explain that to Haula but he didn't get it or didn't care. So there was no chance of him coming back, even if the expansion draft wasn't happening. Oh well, it's too bad because he was a solid player.


  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ECA19 View Post
    I'm not from the range. She just like UMD the best. It was the best team and it's a good school in a nice city. I think they may be the best team in the conference next year and compete for a national title. She's one of 4 high level forwards coming in, plus a couple excellent defensemen. Oh, and the goalie that just led Team USA to the gold medal will be returning for 2 more years. So the future looks bright.

    As for me, I grew up in Robbinsdale, playing on outdoor ice and I was terrible. Quit around 13 yrs old. Loved hoops, married a good college basketball player and we had 2 hockey players. Go figure. Now I've got my own skate sharpener in the garage and it'll be collecting dust. But it's been a fun ride. Hope your kid sticks with it!

    I agree that it'll be very interesting to see what the new GM is able to pull off. I wish that Russian kid was coming over. He could be a difference maker, but he's at least a couple years away - and maybe more.

    As for Haula, he was gone anyway. I'm friends with a high level Wild front office guy and he told me Haula insisted on WAY more than they could pay him under the cap. They tried to explain that to Haula but he didn't get it or didn't care. So there was no chance of him coming back, even if the expansion draft wasn't happening. Oh well, it's too bad because he was a solid player.
    I'm glad you mentioned the inside story on Haula. I was a big fan of Haula but not so much now. No need to blame Fletcher anymore for that one.


  19. #19
    How about the draft this weekend? Did we actually change GMs?
    It doesn’t matter if you are a king or street sweeper pretty soon you will dance with the reaper!

    Its better to be silent and everyone think your an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    “Statistics are no substitute for judgment”
    Henry Clay



 

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