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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by pagliatti View Post
    Actually the development ways of Thibs are pretty sound. The first year in the league should be used to get an NBA body, professional work ethic and repetitions, get used to the new lifestyle-city, food and sleep habits- and also to learn the intricate playbook and roster mannerisms, i.e. the exact spot and timing to give another player the ball, which depends on the receiver blend of skill, quickness et cetera; exactly the same to overextend some help defense.

    One thing is what the book says about a play being correct and another completely different one is to read the play with the player in mind- Bjelly with dubious space for a three is a better play than giving the ball to him in motion with little advantage in a direct path to the basket. But it is a better play only for fractions of a second of difference so you need repetitions near those guys.

    The second year a rookie that did his duties should be able to see a lot of playing time. Iowa might be now a lot more viable for rookie year as teams stressed the developmental approach of the GLeague. However there is a tradeoff. I almost prefer them to play the top talent in training sessions and get their advice to be better. The hardest thing to imitate are the elite skills displayed in NBA games. KAT defense and offensive aggressiveness should be better if anyone in the squad could punish him at either side of the ball.
    Sounds good in theory, but in reality, Thibs has one real success story, Butler. I'm sure just about every franchise wants to limit the role of a rookie, let them adjust, work on conditioning, fundamentals, and chiseling their bodies so I don't think that's a Thibs theory either. Development comes from getting your young guys to do what you want them to do on the court and be successful at doing so. Thibs has not shown an ability to get through to young guys what he screams about every night in Minnesota. I give him credit for Butler but that is also pretty clearly a miss by most talent evaluators in the league based on his draft slot as it is about Thibs developing him. There are stories out of Chicago of players telling Thibs he needed to play Butler even as a rookie so he didn't catch on that quickly either. Noah was the best NBA ready defensive big man to enter the league based on his play at Florida. He was really rare in how he lead Florida's team during his time in college.


  2. #202
    I think the "Thibs doesn't play rookies" thing is overblown.

    Patton didn't play because he broke his foot, never looked comfortable in the GLeague and then needed another procedure after the season ended.

    But the previous year, he (if anything) overplayed Dunn. Okogie and KBD are Thibs' guys. I think he's more likely to play them.

    Mirotic played 1700 minutes.
    Kris Dunn played 1300 minutes.
    Tony Snell played 1200 minutes.
    Asik played 1000 minutes.
    McDermott didn't play much, but he was awful as a rookie.
    Marquis Teague didn't play much, but he was awful as a rookie. And he was a guy Thibs didn't want drafted.

    Butler barely played, but people forget that was the lockout season. There was a 2 week "training camp" between the end of the lockout and the start of the season. And Butler was joining a stacked team that finished #1 in the East. Thibs actually played 11 players at least 15MPG - and only 2 guys more than 30.


  3. #203
    A poster at Canis has been gathering Wolves draft reviews:

    https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/6/2...3-52-gpa-links


  4. #204
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    18,388
    Was kicking tires last night with WOTP by messenger about Okogie and I comp'd him to Danny Green. If Okogie ended up playing a Green-style role here, I don't think any of us would be too upset with that.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...greenda02.html

    Okogie probably pans out as a better shooter but the "hustle stats" are all in the ballpark with where Green is at...and if we got a guy who did 5 boards, 2 dimes, a block, a steal on 40% from 3, I'd sign up for that.
    Inching back towards the wagon...slowly...


  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf on the Prowl View Post
    If the rookies are not playing 12-15 minutes a night they should be in Iowa. If either one can be an nba quality defender they shouldn’t have an issue getting that many minutes. Thibs needs to show change just as much as the players do if this team is going to win. One of those changes needs to be the use of the bench. A guy like Okogie should be able to get us minutes as a backup to Wiggins or Butler or in an amazing world both. KBD I have more questions about in terms of nba fit but I got to watch him a great deal in the Big Ten.

    I am not expecting or predicting stars for these guys but hopefully they can develop into good backup players and maybe Okogie into a starter down the road a little.
    I have a feeling that the bolded was talked to at the year end "Summit" with the owner. We'll see if Thibs listened or not. But in general..Thibs (or any head coach) SHOULD be open to ways that they can improve their own performance. I have a feeling that Thibs answer to everything is just "do it harder!".


  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by LEvine View Post
    I think the "Thibs doesn't play rookies" thing is overblown.

    Patton didn't play because he broke his foot, never looked comfortable in the GLeague and then needed another procedure after the season ended.

    But the previous year, he (if anything) overplayed Dunn. Okogie and KBD are Thibs' guys. I think he's more likely to play them.

    Mirotic played 1700 minutes.
    Kris Dunn played 1300 minutes.
    Tony Snell played 1200 minutes.
    Asik played 1000 minutes.
    McDermott didn't play much, but he was awful as a rookie.
    Marquis Teague didn't play much, but he was awful as a rookie. And he was a guy Thibs didn't want drafted.

    Butler barely played, but people forget that was the lockout season. There was a 2 week "training camp" between the end of the lockout and the start of the season. And Butler was joining a stacked team that finished #1 in the East. Thibs actually played 11 players at least 15MPG - and only 2 guys more than 30.
    I agree. You really just need to look at Dunn to get that info. The issue is Thibs doesnt play his BENCH... Dunn got more minutes than he deserved early especially...over Tyus who DID get less minutes than he deserved.


  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by kingsxman View Post
    I agree. You really just need to look at Dunn to get that info. The issue is Thibs doesnt play his BENCH... Dunn got more minutes than he deserved early especially...over Tyus who DID get less minutes than he deserved.
    That also makes me wonder if he'll play HIS GUYS more.

    Thibs inherited Dieng, Bjelica and Tyus. And none of them played as much as they should've.

    But he overplayed HIS GUYS, Rose and Crawford.

    Maybe since he handpicked the rookies, he'll actually play them?


  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by LEvine View Post
    That also makes me wonder if he'll play HIS GUYS more.

    Thibs inherited Dieng, Bjelica and Tyus. And none of them played as much as they should've.

    But he overplayed HIS GUYS, Rose and Crawford.

    Maybe since he handpicked the rookies, he'll actually play them?
    I really dont know... My Thibs hate seems to trump logical thinking sometimes. I have to believe that Thibs is a smart basketball guy who can put actual "talent" over his own need to play his players. I dont know that inheriting a player is a bad thing to him but he does seem to have a soft spot for guys who have played with him before... That said..there really is no good explanation for why Tyus Jones isnt getting more minutes. Other than the fact that he has his analytics team locked in a closet and refuses to speak with them.


  9. #209
    The kids in uniform. 2 things stand out.

    1. Okogie is pretty jacked for a 19 year old.
    2. I love that Okogie picked his draft position for his number.



  10. #210
    One other Thibs thing that complaints of minutes played by starters being excessive might not be so bad. Starters minutes were:

    Jimmy 36.7
    Wigs 36.3
    KAT 35.6
    Taj 33.2
    Teague 33.0
    JC 20.7
    Bjelly 20.5
    Tyus 17.9
    Gorgui 16.9

    My impression beforehand was our starters averaged a couple of minutes more per game.
    ------------------------
    Under Flip
    KG 40.0

    Everybody else 36 or fewer
    These numbers seem consistent.
    ----------------------------------
    At first those numbers didn't seem excessive until you look at the way other teams use players.

    In looking at other teams today they all seem to go 12 deep, not 9 deep like Thibs. Usually other teams top player or two get 36 minutes, followed by the rest of the starters getting 25-32. Big difference there. No wonder our starters are tired at the end of games.

    Just an observation that all the number crunchers out there are probably already aware.


  11. #211

  12. #212
    Just for fun. Josh Okogie.....on fire!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkg4d_ymeiw


  13. #213


 

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