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  1. #1

    The Scoop: Doogie with Thorpe

    LazyAssHat listened to Thorpe on the Scoop with Doogie so you don't have to:

    http://www.1500espn.com/the-scoop-2/...allout-ep-156/

    • Wolves are still after a wing in FA, Thibs wants to go more small ball with Butler playing more at the 4. Thinks it will be a 2/3. If its just a 2 he will be a really good shooter.
    • Thorpe thinks Wiggins has been horribly developed and we should play faster.
    • Thorpe thinks Thibs has a bad reputation amongst players in terms of luring players.
    • Thinks players will talk to Crawford about signing here and Crawford couldn’t get out of here any faster. Things he liked as a whole but had no interest in playing for Thibs.
    • Thorpe has never once had a player who didn’t love living in Minneapolis, they liked playing for the franchise even when they were dog ****, never had a player complain about the weather. Players with kids loved Minneapolis. Only 2 complaints hes ever had, lack of an imaginative ownership group and now playing for Thibs isn’t fun.
    • Doogie said he heard Thibs has lightened up a bit in practice and changed from Chicago days. Thorpe said not at all what hes heard. He also said its stupid to compare him to what he was you need to compare him to what else is out there and he fails spectacularly.
    • Players talk a lot and its well known its not fun to play for Thibs, he isn’t fun, practices aren’t fun, hours of grinding through tape isn’t fun, he just wears you down.
    • Thorpe thinks Bradley, Barton, Ariza, maybe Jerami Grant, and Brewer (he didn’t really say yes or no) are good fits. Tyreke Evans, Gerald Green (couldn’t handle Thibs), Rudy Gay (no motor and wont handle Thibs), KCP, make it Wayne, Tolliver, Seth Curry, and Joe Harris (best of the nots) are not. He went for guys checking 3 boxes (defense, transition, and 3p shooting) guys who don’t only check 1 or 2 boxes. If you can’t get the 3 boxes target guys who can have good 3p% first. Brewer would move to MSP in a second loves it here.
    • Thinks franchise is trash at developing players due to number of players that never reach the potential that is expected, and will let Bjelica go.
    • He reiterated that literally every player hes talked to loved living in MSP or playing there.
    • Talked about how literally our only knocks in the league are the fact that our ownership group and coach are a joke. (Awesome).
    • (Outside of Spurs and Dubs) thinks Miami and OKC have the best reputation in how they treat players and best orgs to play for.
    • Suns, Jazz, and Spurs have interest in Bjelica. Him and his family like being in Minnesota but he wants more minutes.
    • Never came close on draft night to trading Gorgui. Teams are aware that hes available. Bazemore deals wasn’t remotely close.
    • Ryan Brokeoff (sp?) was in for a workout on Monday. He can shoot, apparently lights out, hes a stretch 4.
    • We have full MLE.
    • Talked to Taylor during draft, all stuff with Thibs are apparently in the past. Its not "kumbyah let’s hold hands". But all are on about the same page.
    • They were in on DiVincenzo, he was above Okogie on the board but went to the Bucks.
    • Medical red flags for KBD led to his drop. But hes as good as advertised.
    • Wolves don’t have interest in Joe Harris. Pacers, Nets, Lakers, Spurs, Rockets, and a few others but isn’t a sense league wide that we are interested.
    • Jerami Grant under the radar FA for Minnesota. Keep an eye on him. (Did he play for Thibs?)


  2. #2
    (Also, can someone fix the typo in the Thread title? Thanks!)


  3. #3
    I listened and it's clear that Thorpe thinks very little of Thibs and Taylor for that matter. He bashed Thibs at every opportunity and also talked about how overall franchise direction is hugely impacted by ownership citing the Warriors.

    The part where Thope corrected Doogie on Thibs practices was pretty great. Basically Doogie was trying to defend Thibs a little and Thorpe just said it's a silly point to make as it doesn't matter if Thibs is lighter than he used to be. He's still way behind the rest of the league.

    I thought it was mostly Doogie though, and not Thorpe, that offered most of the stuff on Crawford wanting out.


  4. #4
    Great stuff. It's amazing how so much of this is just what we've been talking about right here. It was good to hear they like DiVincenzo who I liked #1. Surprised about the lack of interest in Harris but Jerami Grant would be just fine. Bradley too. I'd be disappointed losing Bjelly but such is life.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    18,388
    • He reiterated that literally every player hes talked to loved living in MSP or playing there.
    • Talked about how literally our only knocks in the league are the fact that our ownership group and coach are a joke. (Awesome).
    I've rarely heard anyone who ever played for the Wolves trash the MSP as a place to live outside of it being cold. The media spotlight in Minneapolis is like a 20 watt lightbulb compared to the largest media markets out there. Hell, Wiggins would probably be in the fetal position holding his Linus blanket nightily if he played in New York or Philly given how critical the media (and fans) can be.

    If only we had a FO and owner that could develop the culture that Utah, GSW, SA, MIA, etc. have...not just in how the team is run but in terms of scouting and talent development.
    Inching back towards the wagon...slowly...


  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    Great stuff. It's amazing how so much of this is just what we've been talking about right here. It was good to hear they like DiVincenzo who I liked #1. Surprised about the lack of interest in Harris but Jerami Grant would be just fine. Bradley too. I'd be disappointed losing Bjelly but such is life.
    Grant does offer energy and defense, but again, how does he help address our need for 3 pt shooting? On a team with shooters in place, Grant makes more sense as a mobile 4 who can switch defensively, but on a team lacking those shooters, the fit isn't great.

    I was no Crawford fan, but he did take a bunch of 3s with him when leaving. Now we're looking at losing Bjelica too. And a possible scenario is that we'll resign Rose and look at Grant when we strike out on the other wings who don't want to play for a guy like Thibs.

    Jeesh...without KAT, we could be the worst team ever in terms of 3s taken/made relative to the rest of the league. Everyone else is shooting more and more and while our words state otherwise, we keep shedding players who shoot 3s for ones that don't.


  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dschroeder01 View Post
    Grant does offer energy and defense, but again, how does he help address our need for 3 pt shooting? On a team with shooters in place, Grant makes more sense as a mobile 4 who can switch defensively, but on a team lacking those shooters, the fit isn't great.

    I was no Crawford fan, but he did take a bunch of 3s with him when leaving. Now we're looking at losing Bjelica too. And a possible scenario is that we'll resign Rose and look at Grant when we strike out on the other wings who don't want to play for a guy like Thibs.

    Jeesh...without KAT, we could be the worst team ever in terms of 3s taken/made relative to the rest of the league. Everyone else is shooting more and more and while our words state otherwise, we keep shedding players who shoot 3s for ones that don't.
    Yep, you're right on Grant. My impression on Grant was that he was a better 3 pt shooter. Not so. He hardly takes any. I agree we need more 3 pt shooting. Everybody agrees on that. We have guys right now that can make 3's but Thibs has to make the decision to open things up, add more ball movement strong side to weak side, and fire away with confidence.

    We have guys that can make them right now but it's tough taking them when you are 1 for 13 to start the game. How many times did that seemingly happen last year? Bjelly and KAT shot about 42% from 3. Wigs and Crawford each shot 33% from 3. The same! Even Tyus shot better than that at 34.5%. Jimmy was at 35% and Teague at about 37%. Numbers wise that doesn't look horrible does it?

    One significant improvement should be either Okogie or KBD should be much better than Bazz. Either one of those guys should be able to make a 3. We should be in ok shape from 3.

    One thing we did well was play great in the 1st qtr to the 9 minute mark. We then bring the reserves plus Wiggins and we go right into the tank. Played well in the 2nd qtr. 50/50 that we play well in the 3rd. Now in the 4th qtr we slow things down, go iso with tired starters and usually throw it away. We have to try to play the way we do in the 1st qtr the whole game. Ball movement is the answer.

    One other thing, teams would adjust later in games and Thibs didn't seem effective in countering that.


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dschroeder01 View Post
    Grant does offer energy and defense, but again, how does he help address our need for 3 pt shooting? On a team with shooters in place, Grant makes more sense as a mobile 4 who can switch defensively, but on a team lacking those shooters, the fit isn't great.

    I was no Crawford fan, but he did take a bunch of 3s with him when leaving. Now we're looking at losing Bjelica too. And a possible scenario is that we'll resign Rose and look at Grant when we strike out on the other wings who don't want to play for a guy like Thibs.

    Jeesh...without KAT, we could be the worst team ever in terms of 3s taken/made relative to the rest of the league. Everyone else is shooting more and more and while our words state otherwise, we keep shedding players who shoot 3s for ones that don't.
    If I recall Jerami Grant was a solid shooter in college and a solid defender. Exactly what we would need and if I recall many of us were hoping he was going to fall in the 2nd to us but he was selected 1 ahead.
    Publicity, fame and accolades can make a theory popular. They can't make it true.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    18,388
    Quote Originally Posted by BoneCrusher View Post
    If I recall Jerami Grant was a solid shooter in college and a solid defender. Exactly what we would need and if I recall many of us were hoping he was going to fall in the 2nd to us but he was selected 1 ahead.
    https://www.basketball-reference.com...grantje01.html

    He wasn't a good outside shooter in college.

    He's essentially a younger Brewer with better shot blocking ability.

    Candidly, we need some guys who will take and stick 3's more than a 3/4 who can't stick an outside shot.
    Inching back towards the wagon...slowly...


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    Yep, you're right on Grant. My impression on Grant was that he was a better 3 pt shooter. Not so. He hardly takes any. I agree we need more 3 pt shooting. Everybody agrees on that. We have guys right now that can make 3's but Thibs has to make the decision to open things up, add more ball movement strong side to weak side, and fire away with confidence.

    We have guys that can make them right now but it's tough taking them when you are 1 for 13 to start the game. How many times did that seemingly happen last year? Bjelly and KAT shot about 42% from 3. Wigs and Crawford each shot 33% from 3. The same! Even Tyus shot better than that at 34.5%. Jimmy was at 35% and Teague at about 37%. Numbers wise that doesn't look horrible does it?
    % is one thing, but as the Wolves illustrate, shooting them at volume is more than just "we need to shoot more 3s." Teague is the perfect example of a guy who shoots fairly well from 3, but just doesn't play the game in a way that generates a lot of attempts. Watch some of the guys we're talking about like a Wayne Ellington and they have developed the skill of finding and anticipating the open space to get a semi-open look from 3. Not only that, but they're absolutely ready and itching to pull the trigger. Watching Teague, you just see a guy who almost seems a bit surprised when he gets the ball back around the 3 pt line. He isn't floating and ready for the 3 in many situations which is why he resorts to hesitation and and the feeling of not being open to shoot it. Additionally, Butler and Wiggins are attacking players at their best when hunting shots. Those kind of guys aren't used to just standing and floating around the 3 pt line waiting for someone else to kick it out to them for a 3 pt attempt.

    Additionally, the Wolves offense and passing decisions don't lend to 3s as many as they could. A good offense and smarter offensive players make moves with the purpose of getting guys open looks from 3. How many times last year did guys miss an open Bjelica at the 3 pt line in favor of a contested drive? Sure, some of those drives/shots went in, but it's a harder shot and one that could be made easier when set up by an established threat of a kick out 3. We rarely make that pass, so teams load up on our attacking drive as they don't respect floor space.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dschroeder01 View Post
    % is one thing, but as the Wolves illustrate, shooting them at volume is more than just "we need to shoot more 3s." Teague is the perfect example of a guy who shoots fairly well from 3, but just doesn't play the game in a way that generates a lot of attempts. Watch some of the guys we're talking about like a Wayne Ellington and they have developed the skill of finding and anticipating the open space to get a semi-open look from 3. Not only that, but they're absolutely ready and itching to pull the trigger. Watching Teague, you just see a guy who almost seems a bit surprised when he gets the ball back around the 3 pt line. He isn't floating and ready for the 3 in many situations which is why he resorts to hesitation and and the feeling of not being open to shoot it. Additionally, Butler and Wiggins are attacking players at their best when hunting shots. Those kind of guys aren't used to just standing and floating around the 3 pt line waiting for someone else to kick it out to them for a 3 pt attempt.

    Additionally, the Wolves offense and passing decisions don't lend to 3s as many as they could. A good offense and smarter offensive players make moves with the purpose of getting guys open looks from 3. How many times last year did guys miss an open Bjelica at the 3 pt line in favor of a contested drive? Sure, some of those drives/shots went in, but it's a harder shot and one that could be made easier when set up by an established threat of a kick out 3. We rarely make that pass, so teams load up on our attacking drive as they don't respect floor space.
    I agree. I think we have the same idea on this. It's not that we don't have the ability to do it, it's more of our style of play that gets in the way. There is no way you are going to get a ton of 3's shot with our stand-around iso offense. Funny thing is we run a ball movement oriented offense in the 1st qtr. Everybody seems to touch the ball.


  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick K View Post
    I agree. I think we have the same idea on this. It's not that we don't have the ability to do it, it's more of our style of play that gets in the way. There is no way you are going to get a ton of 3's shot with our stand-around iso offense. Funny thing is we run a ball movement oriented offense in the 1st qtr. Everybody seems to touch the ball.
    Yep. Our guys play a selfish style and it creates the scenario of having to be selfish to "get your shots."



 

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