Can we go into next season with Flynn and Sessions?

[EA!]

Originally Posted by Wolf on the Prowl

Just looking at the numbers the plain and simple averages for Flynn.

If he would improve his shooting percentage by 3-5% which to me is possible by simply finishing better around the rim, taking better shots, and improved talent around him should get him easier looks. He would be in the 45% range which for a point guard is pretty good especially coupling it with his 80% from the free throw line.

If he can improve his assist number by say 2 per game which seems like a ton but hopefully if he is given more talent on the wings to make shots and another year in the system should also help knowing where the ball should be. That would put him at 6.4 assists per contest which is not a terrific number but in the triangle if we continue to run it as much as we did the assist numbers get covered up some.

Turnovers must improve he averaged nearly 3 per game if he improves a half a turnovers per game his assist to turnover ratio would be 3 to 1 if he improves the assist numbers.

A basket more per game would put him at 15.5 points per game would be just fine.

A second year point guard with numbers in the 15.5 points, 6.4 assists, shooting 45% from the field and 80% from the free throw line with 2 turnovers per game is not bad at all IMO. Is it elite no it is not but for a guy in his second year it would be a solid season.

The defense has to improve as everyone has said but I just can't believe he can't be a decent defender because he has everything a defender needs athleticly other than the height. There is no reason he can't develope his defense with work now maybe he wont get to to that average level this year but over the course of the next year he should be able to improve a great deal.

Sure.

I mean if Flynn can increase his shooting % by 5 points, increase his assists by 30% while decreasing his TOs by 30% all while vasly improving his defense...

But couldn't the same be said of Sessions. Or Foye. Or Brewer. Or Ellington. Or Bracey Wright. Or...

[EA!]

Originally Posted by Big_Monday

I think PG is the only position that we should hold steady on. Flynn and Sessions are still young enough to improve and we have Rubio in the wings. Plenty of good prospects. If we move on any of them this year it could come back to haunt us.

On a 15 win team everyone is available for the right price but barring a great deal patience is needed here. Let them develop one more year and see what we get.

In any case Flynn should be given 1.5 assists per game just for playing with our historically awful wings.

Good line on the wings.

I am fine with patience, but let's look at reasonable scenarios. We have Flynn and Sessions this year and they both play somewhat better.

Then next offseason, in addition to a possible lockout, we are facing having Flynn and Sessions on the roster with Rubio ready to come over.

I do not see that as a way to really optimize the value on our roster.

I would look at trading Flynn more than Sessions because he may well have more value in the trade market and he is not as good of a player (that may eventually change).

I am really not an 'anti-Flynn' guy and if we could not get a decent deal for him, I would not trade him just to move him.

OTOH, we are all about building for the future and I do not see Rubio/Flynn and Sessions working together on the same roster. Flynn and Sessions did not work at all together last year and I do not see Rubio and Flynn being a great fit for long minutes either (or Rubio/Sessions, for that matter).

[Homer7]

"I would look at trading Flynn more than Sessions because he may well have more value in the trade market and he is not as good of a player (that may eventually change)."

I say (with a crowd of others) that it is way too early to trade Flynn away and see him as a spark off the bench in the future. I still think about how we gave up on Billups way too early, underestimating his potential. I don't think we have the luxury of trading either Flynn or Sessions until Rubio gets here.

[EA!]

Originally Posted by Homer7

"I would look at trading Flynn more than Sessions because he may well have more value in the trade market and he is not as good of a player (that may eventually change)."

I say (with a crowd of others) that it is way too early to trade Flynn away and see him as a spark off the bench in the future. I still think about how we gave up on Billups way too early, underestimating his potential. I don't think we have the luxury of trading either Flynn or Sessions until Rubio gets here.

I think Billips ends up being the exception that fools people into forgetting the rule.

I know I was making the same arguments about Foye that you make about Flynn. There was a crowd (including me) supporting that also (have you heard of the appeal to the crowd fallacy?) that said maybe Foye would develop along the same Billips developmental burst.

And Foye, like Flynn and Billips, has good character and big 'heart'.



Plus, I really do not see how it is 'giving up' on Flynn as much as trying to obtain value for him. Getting value for a young player before he reaches his potential scares some, but his value is largely based on a team feeling he still has a high potential.

I guess I wish that some people that oppose trading Flynn would explain why/how they think it will work out with Rubio and Flynn long-term. Their attempts are disturbing because they use words like "spark plug off the bench" and "6th man" to support what they seem to think is the ceiling on Flynn's role on the team.


Maybe part of the problem is no trade examples are used.

If you could trade Flynn to the Pacers for their First Rounder and draft George or Henry (assume both are available), would that interest you?

I would do that trade for sure. Sure we are just trading in one bundle of potential for another, but I think the ceiling is higher with the players we could get at #10 and their long-teerm fit on the roster may be much better.

If the argument you oppose is simply a " hey, let's get rid of Flynn" argument, then we are not even talking about the same thing. If we cannot get good value for Flynn, I would keep him also.

My argument is that this may end up being the highest trade value Flynn has for awhile and I do not see his trade value going up if/when we get Rubio to come here.

[Homer7]

Originally Posted by EA!

I think Billips ends up being the exception that fools people into forgetting the rule.

I know I was making the same arguments about Foye that you make about Flynn. There was a crowd (including me) supporting that also (have you heard of the appeal to the crowd fallacy?) that said maybe Foye would develop along the same Billips developmental burst.

Plus, I really do not see how it is 'giving up' on Flynn as much as trying to obtain value for him. Getting value for a young player before he reaches his potential scares some, but his value is largely based on a team feeling he still has a high potential.

I guess I wish that some people that oppose trading Flynn would explain why/how they think it will work out with Rubio and Flynn long-term. Their attempts are disturbing because they use words like "spark plug off the bench" and "6th man" to support what they seem to think is the ceiling on Flynn's role on the team. Maybe part of the problem is no trade examples are used.

If you could trade Flynn to the Pacers for their First Rounder and draft George or Henry (assume both are available), would that interest you?

I would do that trade for sure. Sure we are just trading in one bundle of potential for another, but I think the ceiling is higher with the players we could get at #10 and their long-teerm fit on the roster may be much better.

If the argument you oppose is simply a " hey, let's get rid of Flynn" argument, then we are not even talking about the same thing. If we cannot get good value for Flynn, I would keep him also. My argument is that this may end up being the highest trade value Flynn has for awhile and I do not see his trade value going up if/when we get Rubio to come here.

Good points, EA. My observation is that Flynn as a rookie showed quality signs and perhaps his mediocrity had to do in part in trying to do too much, be too much too soon. He is no Deron Williams or Derick Rose, pgs who could come right in and quarterback a team with all-star ability.

My reference to the "crowd" was only to state the obvious - this observation was not original with me.

Your hypotheticals about trading Flynn for a first rounder are intriguing, but just that, hypothetical (which is what we do around here, anyway). I don't see other organizations doing what you're suggesting. I don't believe Flynn is at his "highest trade value" at this point - few at his stage have hit their ceiling. He has a lot to learn.

Bottom line for me is this: I just don't see the organization trading Flynn - they invested a lot of minutes in him last year and treated him like a building block, not an asset to be dealt. I hope they're right, and as a TWolves fan, hope is sometimes all we've got.

[EA!]

Originally Posted by Homer7

Good points, EA. My observation is that Flynn as a rookie showed quality signs and perhaps his mediocrity had to do in part in trying to do too much, be too much too soon. He is no Deron Williams or Derick Rose, pgs who could come right in and quarterback a team with all-star ability.

My reference to the "crowd" was only to state the obvious - this observation was not original with me.

Your hypotheticals about trading Flynn for a first rounder are intriguing, but just that, hypothetical (which is what we do around here, anyway). I don't see other organizations doing what you're suggesting. I don't believe Flynn is at his "highest trade value" at this point - few at his stage have hit their ceiling. He has a lot to learn.

Bottom line for me is this: I just don't see the organization trading Flynn - they invested a lot of minutes in him last year and treated him like a building block, not an asset to be dealt. I hope they're right, and as a TWolves fan, hope is sometimes all we've got.

Good post.

I have no idea about Flynn's trade value. He may not have enough to make a deal, but if a team like the Pacers or Kings valued him highly and wanted a young Point, maybe some sort of deal could be had,

[The PUPs]

Flynn just screams back-up PG to me. These two are redundant players, and I wouldn't be mad to see either one of them not back next year. I was never very high on Flynn coming out of college; how many 5'11'' PGs have been starters on championship teams? The only small guard I think of is Tony Parker, and he is 6'2''. Once Rubio gets here, neither will make a very large impact.

Taking Flynn has been Kahn's biggest mistake so far. You don't draft future bench PGs sixth overall, especially one whose biggest strength isn't valued in our offense.